Rubric question regarding Psalm for Deacon Ordination
  • Beth
    Posts: 53
    Psalm 48 has been chosen for the mass, I'm wondering if there are any rules regarding how many of the verses are used and which ones?
    I know in the GIRM it says as a rule to be taken out of the lectionary, but that particular set up omits many verses that might have meaning for the men being ordained.
    Any one know?
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 786
    Use the Lectionary. There is no leeway given otherwise, unless you use something like Psallite, By Flowing Waters / Graduale Simplex, etc.
  • Beth
    Posts: 53
    Thank you
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Beth,

    Psalm 48 is not one of the options for ordination of deacons, priests, or bishops. See the Lectionary #772. Did you mean Psalm 84, verses 3-4, 5, and 11? If so, the lectionary lays it out in a very peculiar way:

    R/. (5a) Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.

    My soul yearns and pines
    for the courts of the LORD.
    My heart and my flesh
    cry out for the living God.
    Even the sparrow finds a home,
    and the swallow a nest
    in which she puts her young—
    Your altars, O LORD of hosts,
    my king and my God!

    R/. Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.

    Blessed they who dwell in your house!
    continually they praise you.

    R/. Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.

    I had rather one day in your courts
    than a thousand elsewhere;
    I had rather lie at the threshold of the house of my God
    than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

    R/. Blessed are they who dwell in your house, O Lord.

    Psalm 84 also has a special use in the ordination of deacons. If not sung as the responsorial, it is sung at the time of investiture with stole and dalmatic. See the pontifical, #209. I have a chant setting of this psalm for this use.

    Blessings,
    Paul
  • Beth
    Posts: 53
    Thanks so much Paul, I did mean #84, I'm a little rushed when i type.
    I will look in BFW for it.
    Let me take the opportunity to tell you I have really found your book to be a great help and resource. Thanks so much!
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Beth,

    Thanks for your kind words about BFW.

    I misspoke about the psalm I composed. It is a setting of Psalm 146, sung during the exchange of the kiss of peace. Here it is as an attachment.

    Here too is the planning sheet I distribute to deacons planning their ordination.

    Blessings,
    Paul
  • I am a newbie on this forum, so I hope this is the best place for a few questions relating to priestly ordination. In July, our local bishop is celebrating a Mass of ordination for priests in an order that doesn't have a bishop. My pastor's newly-formed men's schola (directed by a good-hearted convert with choral direction experience but very little Catholic Mass knowledge) has been asked to sing, and I'm cantoring. My pastor is trying to revive Latin in our parish, but he has no training in this area either. I've got Latin / medieval literature training and have learned to read chant notation so have been chanting the Latin propers on Sundays from the Graduale Romanum (with the hope that our choir will be able to learn chant notation eventually so we can chant them as a choir instead of solo), but I have no formal training in liturgy and don't always know where to find answers. I can't seem to find anything in the GR for ordination.

    1. Has someone made a Musical Choice Template for Priestly Ordination similar to the one posted here for Diaconate Ordination?

    2. How do I know which Latin propers to use for an ordination (most likely Introit, Offertorio, Communio)?

    3. Our parish has been using Michel Guimont's psalm settings for years; what does this group think of those - especially of the congruity of using a Guimont psalm setting in an ordination Mass where Latin propers are also used (figuring the congregation would like to sing the psalm refrain and could do so more easily in English)?

    4. Our men's schola, which has only existed for a few months, has learned a small assortment of traditional Latin songs (eg. Panis Angelicus, Ave Verum, Magnificat Tone 8, and one or two others), and we want to figure out which ones could be properly placed in a Mass of Ordination. They could learn others, but have modest musical talents and can't take on too much before July.

    5. Finally, in general, when I'm asked to chant Latin propers at a weekday Mass, how do I locate which Latin propers to use, given that the GR seems to provide only the ones for Sundays?

    I'm very grateful to have found this group. At my parish we desire to bring the ancient forms of sung prayer back to active use, but we have very little knowledge of how to do it, so I hope to learn much from you all!

    Thanks,

    Joan
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Joan,

    I would be happy to help you with some of your requests. Here is the musical choice template for ordinations to the presbyterate and the lectionary readings for ordinations.

    The most important chant—in my opinion—is the Iam Non Dicam, the responsory sung during the kiss of peace among the priests.

    I will make a PDF file for you of that, in square and in modern notation.

    So check back frequently, as I will be adding information to this thread.

    Blessings,
    Paul
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Joan,

    Here is the commentary I have written on the ordination rite that will help you understand the meaning of what happens.

    Blessings,
    Paul
  • Thank you, thank you! Everyone involved in this liturgy will be so thrilled to see this information.

    Where can I find the Latin equivalents (in chant notation) of the antiphons you mentioned? Now that I've learned chant notation, I actually find it easier to read (for trying to sing in Latin, at least) than modern notation, because the Latin syllables are so stretched out in modern notation, and it's much easier to see the movement of the line when the notes are piled on top of each other than when they're stretched out!

    So thank you so much for offering to post the square-note Iam non dicam, and if you have the others in chant notation, that would be beautiful.

    Your generosity is much appreciated. I hope you don't mind if I post further questions once I've digested all this.

    Joan Carey
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Joan,

    Here is the list of chants that may be sung at ordinations, according to the 1974 Graduale Romanum (I checked and nothing was changed in the Ordo Cantus Missae, 1987).

    Note that this list does not reflect the second edition (now in effect) of the Roman Pontifical, the section on ordinations (1989).

    In a few minutes I will post a comparison of that second edition with the 1974/1987 list of chants.

    Blessings,
    Paul
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Here is a PDF file of the Iam non dicam.
  • Thank you so much! I see now where I should have looked in the GR index. So I think I'm all set; you don't need to post the other chants, now that I know where they are. Might you share where you found the Iam non dicam? I don't see it in the GR index. Also, do you know if there's an online Roman Pontifical somewhere? The priest I'm working with at our diocesan office didn't think we had a copy. I presume that's where the music for functions with a bishop can be found?

    Blessings and many thanks,
    Joan
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 798
    Joan,

    You asked, "Might you share where you found the Iam non dicam?" It is from De Ordinatione Episcopi, Presbyterorum, et Diaconaorum (editio typica altera, 1990), pages 79 and 80. The edition I posted above is from the Liber Usualis 1962, pages 1847 and 1848. I like it because it has the old Solesmes markings.

    Blessings,
    Paul