Indeed, Chris.
The term 'digital organ' is a fancy name for a simulacrum - as a signifer it is a cousin of the proverbial attempt to craft of a sow's ear a silk purse.

Well said, Charles. However, though we sometimes find simulacra a necessity for home practice and other places which would not accommodate even a few pipes, such necessity does not make of them any more than what they are: simulacra of organs, synthesisers (coming from 'synthetic'). They are not organs at all. (And, I have played my share of them, from the worst to the best, and speak from experience.) (And, the proposition that they are cheaper than organs is fast becoming untenable.)

Jackson,

Well, the Ordinariate makes Anglicans who haven't swum the Tiber mad that even Catholics know how to make liturgy beautiful?

any influence at all in the wider liturgical scene of the Ordinariate's liturgical praxis?

Musicians are constantly practicing, searching for new music, and aware of imperfections in their performance. I do not get the impression that much of that goes on with other liturgical practitioners. Certainly among English Catholics generally the term ars celebrandi seems to be an alien concept, though I know of exceptions.

Or put another way, the CMAA is a great place to find resources. It is not (In my opinion) a good place to find a clear vision for parish musical practice. In other words, how do all these resources work together for me in my practical efforts to improve things in my parish?

Once recurring problem I've seen is CMAA members who go out to a parish and use all these resources in a way that creates dissension and push-back from the congregation. Some of that may be their individual personality, but I've seen it enough to think that it's a deeper problem. We're often not really sure what we're trying to accomplish, and I think often there is a disregard for the Novus Ordo that leads to trouble. That's why I would point to clarity and brevity of vision/mission as the best way for CMAA to improve its influence. For all its faults, again, NPM does a good job of slick packaging and synthesis of resources into usable format.

But what is our (CMAA's) vision... and how can we push a unified ideal?
The needs of established chant choirs singing at the E.F. are different from say a polyphonic choir singing at the E.F. The needs for a choir singing the N.O. could be the same as the chant E.F. choir or very different. How do we distill this into a unified vision?

In the E.F. we can have the following,
1. All Chant...
2. Chant Ordinary and Propers and polyphonic motets
3. Polyphonic Ordinary and Chant Propers with either chant of polyphonic motets
4. Chant Ordinary and Polyphonic Propers...
5. etc.

Our choir manages each of these, options 3 and 4 are only programmed to be 6-10 Sundays a year.

So even in the E.F. that has a 'clear' set of rubrics we have different needs and choirs can have very different styles and repertoire...

I see an even more complex set of options for the N.O. with English Propers and differences in Translations!

Perhaps a compromise would be a have an ask a question section 'can we help you', on the CMAA homepage and have the question appear on the Forum so we can formulate an answer... (that could then be forwarded). Also the Forum link could be on a secondary tab?

Another Forum I am a member of has a visible section, and a section only visible to members, so we could have a EF vs. NO section invisible to the casual visitor.

Anyway I think the CMAA is doing a great job, just one example I have found: Google search does a very good job of indexing the Forum posts. A detailed google search on an obscure detail about Church music regularly leads back to the Forum.

As for having Episcopal approval / oversize, who would do it? how would it work. One year you could have a bishop who champions Sacred Music and the next he is moved or retires and then you could have one that has the opposite view...

I know for my website I would point out that it is an academic exercise and does not need or want any approval. Although if a bishop wanted to champion the work, he would be more than welcome to repost the content with his approval on his own servers (website).

Jared makes a good point about the need for more practical advice about how to succeed at developing or improving a parish music program. Consider the obstacles that parish music directors often face: pastor who isn't on board with sacred music, resistance from congregation, relatively few choir members and instrumentalists, small parish budget, ignorance about liturgy and liturgical music on staff and among parishioners, unfamiliarity with Latin. I've seen and heard about music directors and pastors who crash and burn because they attempted to implement their correct understanding of the Church's vision and teaching about liturgy and music too rapidly or without sensitivity to parish politics or parishioners' readiness. Don't underestimate the force of inertia in parishes, and don't underestimate the willingness of parishioners to close their wallets and drive to a different parish.

The thought that Latin chant and polyphony and ad orientem or even vernacular chant are so inherently beautiful and wonderful that people will be swept off their feet when they hear and see Mass celebrated that way and strangers will bust down the doors to attend Mass there is an approach that will fail.

CMAA provides ample valuable resources, but not much on the side of practical advice for success at using them in the typical, normal parish situation, which is to say: a Novus Ordo parish with an aging and declining attendance that has OCP or GIA materials for music resources and a long history of singing those songs.

Now consider what the OCP/GIA/NPM liturgical music publishing complex provides: ready-made, all-inclusive music programs with hymnals, accompaniment music, print and online resources with song recommendations for every major liturgy, the celebrity factor among their "artists" (don't underestimate the lure of that in our culture), online and phone customer care reps who can assist, and subscription services that provide texts for each Mass so people don't have to look them up in confusing, big books.

OCP/GIA/NPM are selling convenience, ready-made solutions and packaged resources to pastors and musicians who generally don't know a lot about liturgy and liturgical music. And they succeed in providing a product and service that at least 80% of Catholic parishes seem to be satisfied with.

Yes, there are colloquia and intensives offered by CMAA. Yes, Corpus Christi Watershed has made a tremendous effort to provide convenience and resources on its website. Yes, the CMAA website also offers abundant resources. Yes, CanticaNOVA provides suggestions.

But as someone who is familiar with all that and familiar with what OCP and GIA offer, I'll say that OCP and GIA make it a lot easier and less time consuming to get "answers" and "solutions" than the more traditionally-oriented music sources. Also consider that it's much easier to absorb the OCP/GIA/NPM vision by osmosis because it's so prevalent. Much harder to experience liturgy of the CMAA sort. Learning from books about sacred music is not a substitute for experiencing worship celebrated that way for years, but it's very difficult for people to access more traditionally-oriented worship to be formed by that vision because relatively few parishes provide it.

Consider my situation: I've recently taken over a parish music program at an OCP Breaking Bread parish. I have an understanding of the Church's teaching about liturgy and sacred music, and I realize that the current way the parish does things is far from that vision. I have facility with Latin and novice-level familiarity with Gregorian chant, which are already huge advantages over most Novus Ordo parish music directors. But I know if I move too fast away from the OCP material I will alienate choir members, parishioners, probably the pastor, and risk failing and losing my job. The choir members, guitarists and other instrumentalists love singing and playing at Mass. They love the OCP material, and I respect that and am grateful for their generous service. I enjoy leading them and the parish in singing such music well, with meaningfulness. CMAA, CCW and CanticaNOVA offer many resources but little advice about how to select and implement more traditional music gradually into a program such as I now have to manage. Music directors are left to figure that out for themselves, and woe to the person who isn't skilled at parish and choir politics in steering that course. No, at my parish we're not going to start singing out of the Parish Book of Chant. No, we're not going to switch to singing propers soon. No, we're not going to chant the ordinary in Latin nor even the ICEL chant Mass right away. I have a plan (if we ever get back to celebrating Mass publicly), but I've had to develop that plan myself using my own knowledge and prudence, and I've had to take the long view. That takes original effort and work besides familiarity with resources, and in the absence of practical guidance it's more difficult. There are no ready-made answers for my situation.

OCP/GIA/NPM are more influential than CMAA because, among other things, they offer many practical resources and solutions for what the typical parish music director faces. If CMAA is going to increase its influence, it needs to find a way to offer more practical guidance for implementing its vision in typical parishes as a complement to the abundance of outstanding resources it has available. Help music directors navigate the resources and help them choose traditional music wisely in ways that will succeed in bringing more traditional liturgical music to parishes gradually. Hardly any parish is going to switch from OCP/GIA to traditional sacred music cold turkey and do it successfully.

I think it would be wise for CMAA to make it a priority to provide practical advice for introducing traditional music into an OCP/GIA type of parish situation. Where would a music director begin? Which pieces would be recommended because they are beautiful, easy, unintimidating for choirs accustomed to singing OCP and GIA music? Part of the problem might be that there isn't a lot of experience in making that transition successfully, so there isn't much real-world, tested and tried advice to be given.

Thank you Charles! I will keep saying this even though people tell me to shut up: There is an ethical question about these companies - they ARE putting small pipe organ companies out of business! Remember, all the sounds they can and sell are recordings of PIPE organs. Don't buy their instruments. They also propagate MISINFORMATION - like "No church can afford a pipe organ" - hogwash!.

...me to shut up...

Take heart and keep telling them, Greg. When people are so astonishingly rude as to tell you to shut up it is usually because you are saying some truth that they don't want to hear. So, you know that you are doing a Good Thing. Stand your ground and don't flinch!

Archbishop Sample:

Care must be taken, however, to ensure that instruments are suitable for sacred use, that they are fitting for the dignity of the Church and can accompany the singing of the faithful and serve to edify them.
Those instruments, such as electric guitars, that are used in performing Rock Music, even Christian Rock are not suitable for accompaniment at Holy Mass. ...

OCP response to queries on reconciling OCP policy with the role of Archbishop Sample as "Publisher in Chief":

... Keep in mind that OCP publishes music for the Universal Church, for use not only in the most holy sacrifice of the Mass, but also in prayer services, Liturgy of the Hours, Bible studies, youth ministry events, praise and worship events, retreats, school events, penance services, and any occasion in which Catholic communities use music to accompany the many and varied moments of parish life. ...

Fair enough - but, have OCP put this song in a Missal? Yes
https://www.ocp.org/en-us/collections/dg/640/choose-christ-missal-audio#songs
One, of very few so far, reaction to the song.

Got that bluegrass feel to this song...some one my parish plays banjo, now I need to find a mandolin player.... family mass whenever we get back would never know what hit it...love it

OCP and the remainder of the Catholic publishing conglomerate have done more to destroy the barrier between devotional and liturgical music than just about anyone.

Much of it is earnest, devout music that comes from a good place; however, it's completely unsuitable for Mass. That's what I mean. Whether you like it or not (I don't), it's not intrinsically evil or "profane".

Chonak,

I was once told (and I've accepted it as true) that "profane" means "outside the temple", independent of whether it means wicked or sacrilegious. Secular, clearly, means "of the world" or "of the age".... which, shouldn't be permitted in Mass or the Office.

I don't know if the ideal task of advice on a forum like this should be to prune.

More to help people take root in the chant etc.

Then the root will nourish the tree.

Well Nihil's comment is rooted in scripture, and paraphrases the very words of Our Lord on this very day (Good Friday). John 15

I am the true vine: and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now you are clean, by reason of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine: you the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they shall gather him up and cast him into the fire: and he burneth.

Sadly I think we need to see more unproductive branches (that beareth no fruit) to be "cast into the flame" (Matthew 7:19) https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-19.htm see all the cross references!

Once that dead wood is gone, the new shoots will be able to grow in peace and light... Job 14:7

Francis - You have not lost me. It is, despite a reduced schedule, Holy Week. I've been following this and a few other threads with interest, thanking some for fruitful comments or links. I'll be back to posting soon.

It occurs to me that we are all kind of preaching to the choir (no pun intended) about our general dislike of bad music. However, HOW do we in the right spirit try to talk to those other folks in our profession who have bad taste? Perhaps this may be another thread.

On the other hand I have read of symphony musicians who play Mozart and Bruckner, etc., at the symphony hall and then speed down the freeway listening to hard rock. I can't fathom such a mind. I've known church musicians who do the same after directing Palestrina, etc.

That’s me. The human experience is infinitely broad and multifarious, and I could never imagine living with only one or two or five sorts of the very best music. When I am playing or singing or studying Bach or Bruckner or Byrd, I am calling on decades of training and all my abilities to focus all my power on doing justice to the music of a great mind. I get frustrated if something breaks that concentration (as we all do when someone starts asking the organist questions during the postlude).

I drive terribly if I’m listening to classical music. I can’t focus on the road because I’m judging the intonation of the woodwinds and cooking up a Schenkerian analysis and wondering whether the piano is a Steinway or Blüthner as I drive. So I turn on something less demanding, like rock/pop, or something from a genre in which I am not trained and don’t have the skills to overanalyze, say bebop or Carnatic music.

Similarly, at dinner, we listen to 101 Strings or other such fluff that is pleasant but not demanding – so we can pay attention to each other.

In church, of course, “I will not offer to the Lord that which cost me nothing”, and we try to give God the very best music we can, because this is what the liturgy and the Church’s teachings demand. But unless I’m preparing a work, I very, very rarely listen to organ and choral music away from work. I just don’t like to take serious music lightly; playing it while I make Martinis feels as odd to me as going to the beach in cassock and surplice.

A number of musicians I know don't really listen to music for recreation. I don't either. My car radio has been on a few times to check the hazard station that posts road conditions and accidents when the overhead highway signs say to tune in for current news. I put a CD in the player when I bought the car to see if it worked. I never used it again.

Not listening while driving is understandable for the same reason I don't answer cell phone calls. There are so many distractions already any more would add to the dangers in driving.

Could it be that music has become work not pleasure? I have wondered if music education itself is part of the problem since it teaches us to analyze and pick everything apart rather than listen for enjoyment. Marilyn vos Savant made the observation that princes enter music schools and frogs emerge. She also noted that music composition in the "serious" arts has left the realm of communication with any listening public. If she meant standards for contemporary music produce unbearable noise, I could understand that.

I don't listen to music much because I have an inner "radio" that seems to constantly be "playing" something. All my siblings are the same. You look around at a family gathering and if we aren't making music, we are imagining music. My father used to move his fingers as if he were fingering the trumpet.

Worse would be using your feet to pedal, too.

Imagine, Carol, having the challenge of playing the organ in a Standard Shift Car!

Standard shift. Those must be the trackers of the automotive world.

Imagine, Carol, having the challenge of playing the organ in a Standard Shift Car!

Yea, no room for the 32 bombarde pipes

Standard shift.

Makes using the cellphone rather challenging. But it can be done....