Feedback requested
  • mattfong
    Posts: 16
    Hello everyone!

    I've recently spent some time re-typesetting our choir's Tenebrae music, and the accompanying Victoria polyphony. I'd like to get some feedback on readability. It's also geared for choir members who do not sing Vespers every week.

    For decades, the choir sang out of essentially a photocopied Liber, and polyphony with older C-clef. Certainly, for the senior choir members, this is a clef change that will take a little getting used to. But the younger choir members say it's easier for them to locate their pitch with the G-clef.

    For psalms,
    - The whole psalm tone at the top of the page if the psalm ran more than one page.
    - The first pitch change is underlined, as well as italicized (several people mentioned that it's hard to pay attention to the type)
    - The accented syllables have their accents typeset
    - The full antiphon is re-printed at the end to minimize page turns

    My thanks and appreciation in advanced!

    Updates:
    1/ Attribution to Nacho Alvarez for polyphony added to second page
    2/ Easy to correct errors pointed out thus far fixed
    Tenebrae.pdf
    3M
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Richard Mix
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    The ChoirStaff bracket should be placed closer to the staves - you can use the following snippet to accomplish that:
    \override ChoirStaff.SystemStartBracket.padding = #0.3

    I wouldn't use the "tenor" treble-ottava clef for the alto line - it's not necessary in the ranges you've set, and would be easier to read for most female altos and a good number of male ones.
    There's room to make the polyphony a little bit larger if you compress the space between systems somewhat - would aid continuity between plainchant and polyphony.
    On some of the pages the English translations could be more effectively placed directly alongside the Latin verses, rather than clumping up from the top of the page - i.e. p. 34. Would make comparing the two languages verse-for-verse a bit easier.
    Otherwise looks good - the consistency of white balance between different sizes of font, text and music, and paragraphs is superlative, especially in the digital age (though I might be inclined to decrease spacing between lines on the English paragraphs in smaller font just a hair).
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen mattfong
  • gsharpe34
    Posts: 47
    Recommend you check over the chant against the liber, if you have the time. For example (something that jumped out at me after skimming the responsories), at the first line of the verse of the 3rd responsory for Holy Thursday (Ecce vidimus), you have a dot on the second note of the podatus over the first syllable of "ipse." You're also missing a dot on the c/do in the "ve" syllable of Oliveti - first line, first responsory, as well as the horizontal episemas throughout. This may be intentional, but anyone used to singing the melodies as written in the liber will be surprised by the changes.

    Very nice work though overall - congratulations.
    Thanked by 1mattfong
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,192
    English translation of the Lamentations "begins" with a typo in the first line: "Here beings the Lamentations of Jeremiah the Prophet".

    I agree that the Alto part is better rendered in the treble G clef, rather than the tenor G-8vb clef (which suggests that the typesetting may have been borrowed/cribbed from the Nancho Alvarez edition available at CPDL.org &/or tomasluisdevictoria.org, as many of the features of the typesetting are nearly identical ... compare with http://www.uma.es/victoria/pdf/LJ1-Incipit_Lamentatio.pdf ).
    Thanked by 1mattfong
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I agree about the Alto part, depending on who is actually singing it. If you are having tenors sing it (all of the alto parts seem fit comfortably in a tenor range as written except in the Benedictus), then stick with the tenor G-8vb clef, because that's what we're used to!

    I'm also interested in how it came to be that the Miserere after Lauds is sung to Mode VIII; I had always thought that it was supposed to be recited recto tono.
    Thanked by 1mattfong
  • mattfong
    Posts: 16
    Thanks everyone for the feedback, especially the Alto voice.

    @CHGiffen. You are absolutely correct. The polyphonic material is in fact taken from Nacho Alvarez -- of which I must add attribution. The notes are taken from his LilyPond sources which saved me all the input time, but I complied the music through an completely different input file using the lyLuaTeX interface.

    @gsharpe34. My choir director doesn't follow Solesmes, so the dot before the quillisma is removed. The sources are from gregoBase, with all the Solesmes notation removed. I've found neume mistakes in the past for Vespers anitphons, so comparing to the Liber is a must.

    @Salieri. I've been trying to find the Rubrics for the strepitus, but no luck in the 1961 Liber. For the years I've sung Tenebrae, my director has us singing it to Mode 8. If you can point me to the source, I'd be grateful.

    @Schönbergian. I'll play around with the bracketing options. I've already played around with so many options to get better note spacing, staff spacing, etc. LilyPond gets a little tricky when it comes to formatting.

    Update -- Attribution added for Nacho Alvarez.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    In the 1896 & 1924 Libers, the rubrics instructs that the Pater Noster be said silently, and then the Miserere is said in a slightly higher voice, then the collect. Interesting that there's nothing explicit about Recto tono recitation or otherwise, though I know that I have seen that somewhere. I will continue my search.

    Incidentally the Libers from 1952 onward only mention the Pater silently, followed by the collect.
    Thanked by 1mattfong
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    I first heard about the recto tono Miserere from Rutter's notes to the Allegri alternatim verses.
    Thanked by 1mattfong
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