Traditional Spanish Hymns
  • PennyPenny
    Posts: 9
    Is there a source for traditional Spanish Hymns that aren't just the usual suspects(Somos Cuerpo, Pescadores, etc)? I have to plan a bi-lingual Confirmation Mass for next month. My inclination is to use Latin hymns (Adoro te and Pange lingua for Communion). I'm leaning towards translations of Pentecost hymns, such as "Come, Holy Ghost" for the processional.
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    Same same here. And I refuse to opt for 'forced' bilingualism: Ven al Banquete, Pescador (in English), etc
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 797
    Unfortunately, I have not seen a good translation of Come, Holy Ghost, in Spanish. The only good biligual Communion hymn is Amen, written by Fr. John Schiavone. Now, Santo, Santo, Santo, is the Spanish translation of Holy, Holy, Holy (Nicea melody). Jesus Christ is Risen Today also exists in Spanish; unfortunately, some brilliant mind decided to set the song to "Michael Rowed his boat ashore". Talk about ruining a good song.

    "Ven Al Banquete", "Pescador", "O Amor De Dios" are all insipid compositions that focus more on the community and what we are doing rather than on worshipping God.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 797
    Why not just use "Come Holy Ghost" as the entrance processional? Bilingual does not necessarily mean that you have to have one verse in English and one verse in Spanish.

    The readings could be as follows: the first one in English. Now, for the Responsorial Psalm, you could use Manuel Garcia's setting of "Envia Tu Espiritu Senor"; this is faithful to the text. The second reading would be in Spanish. The Gospel Acclamation could be in Spanish and then the Gospel in English.

    I would recommend doing the Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation and the Agnus Dei in Latin. If your bishop is proficient in Latin, he could very well pray the Eucharistic Prayer in Latin, since one of the recommendations in Sacramentum Caritatis calls for Latin to be used in multilingual Masses.

    Do not use the Gloria in Spanish. A lot of the OCP versions of the Gloria are a hatchet job, deleting direct references to Jesus (by name) and the Father. If you are going to use a Gloria, I would use the Community Mass setting by Proulx. It is the best one that I have heard.
  • >"Ven Al Banquete", "Pescador", "O Amor De Dios" are all insipid compositions that focus more on the community and what we are doing rather than on worshipping God.<<br />
    I don't know the third of your cited compostions. But regarding the first two, I take exception from your demeaning and subjective critiques of both their musical settings, but moreso the judgmental conclusion of the composers' intent and your unfortunate choice of the adjective "insipid" that dismisses a reasonable assumption of a charitable and faithful attempt of their respective composers' efforts.

    The mere fact that you don't make any distinction between the textual contents of "Banquete" and "Pescador" attest to an unfortunate reliance upon prejudice and categorical dismissal based upon taste, rather than analysis. I hope you prove me wrong.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 646
    There are tons of traditional Spanish translations of all the breviary hymns, as I'm sure comes as no surprise to you. Mmm, public domain....

    "Partitura" means "score".

    http://www.archimadrid.es/princi/princip/oraylit/liturgia/lithoras/himnos/himnos.htm
    Madrid Archdiocese.

    http://www.mariologia.org/musicamariana.htm
    Marian stuff.
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    Charles & benedictgal: The forced bilingualism is my gripe with "Ven Al Banquete" & "Pescador". The latter, especially, is beautiful in Spanish alone.

    And our Mass is bilingual with readings and hymns in different languages. Actually, trilingual, as we will include 'Veni, Creator Spiritus".
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 797
    Ven al Banquete is insipid because it focuses on the community rather than on God. It also is theologically deficient, reducing the Eucharist to a mere meal than the Holy Sacrifice. Bob Hurd's compositions are more horizontally focused than they are vertically. He focuses on the community and very little on the Divine. That is not ideal music for the liturgy.

    Pescador is not any better. Worse yet is Pescador de Hombres. It is so overused down here to the point of silliness. It is used as a Communion song when it has nothing at all to do with the Eucharist.

    Evidently, the folks at OCP (and their stable of composers) have never read any of Pope Benedict's books and writings on Sacred Music, nor have they read Musicam Sacram.
  • Jn 6

    Jesus went across the Sea of Galilee.
    A large crowd followed him,
    because they saw the signs he was performing on the sick.
    Jesus went up on the mountain,
    and there he sat down with his disciples.
    The Jewish feast of Passover was near.
    When Jesus raised his eyes and saw that a large crowd was coming to him,
    he said to Philip, "Where can we buy enough food for them to eat?"
    He said this to test him,
    because he himself knew what he was going to do...
    "There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish;
    but what good are these for so many?"
    Jesus said, "Have the people recline."
    Now there was a great deal of grass in that place.
    So the men reclined, about five thousand in number.
    Then Jesus took the loaves, gave thanks,
    and distributed them to those who were reclining,
    and also as much of the fish as they wanted."


    I had hoped for a cogent reply; what I think was received was a didactic, pro forma response.
    The above is what Hurd's text amplifies, nothing less nothing more. You can conjure Jacob's ladder or Sarah's circle theology 'til Gehenna's scent is pleasant, but it does not support your point, BG. You cannot retrofit Eucharistic theology to suit your taste or your polemics, BG. You could do better. But you seem bent upon assigning detriment rather than acknowledging both the obvious and the presumption of filial love and charity. That's not far from a "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" convenience. I hope, again, to see you in Chicago and have you sort out how Cesarao Garbarain and Bob Hurd are contradictory to the Christian ethos, not specifically the liturgical ethos, of the Holy Father. I find your response convenient, not charitable. And I would wager (were I inclined) that Hurd has read MS repeatedly and with deep interest.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 797
    Sorry, Charles, but you have not convinced me. Hurd's music focuses on the community rather than on the mysteries of our Faith. Ven al Banquete and his other compositions are exactly what Pope Benedict discusses in Spirit of the Liturgy:

    "On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal."

    I believe that it is about time that OCP receives a wake up call and that someone finally tells Hurd et al that the Emperor's New Clothes are not what they are cracked up to be. Hurd does not capture the authentic Sensus Fidei and is just as bad, if not slightly worse than, the infamous St. Louis Jesuits who managed to water down the faith with their lackluster and insipid compositions.

    Since when does "Ven al Banquete" carry more theological weight than Pange Lingua, At that First Eucharist and Ave Verum? Evidently Hurd has not read any of the Holy Father's writings on Sacred Music.

    If Hurd did read MS, he would not be coming out with the stuff he and OCP keep plugging.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    A bit less heat please! No one really gains from argumentative wrangling (a point of which I need to constantly remind myself!)
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 797
    Thank you, Jeff. It is just that our parish (and the Cathedral, for that matter) is constantly exposed to this. What is worse now is that the new administrator brought the Mariachis back. They sound terrible. During Lent, the music was way too joyous. They have been playing Pescador de Hombres week in and week out to the point that you no longer have any idea what the right liturgical season is. The Gloria they play, another OCP creation, takes out the Holy Name of Jesus and direct references to God the Father.

    At some point, this has got to stop. I have even found myself wishing that we had a Byzantine Rite parish in my diocese. At least, from what I understand, the music is not that bad. The last time I heard exceptional music was back in November when I was in St. Louis for a work-related conference and was blessed enough to go to Mass at their "new" Cathedral and was also blessed to catch part of the second day of the Gateway Liturgical Conference. I wish we had Fr. Weber in our diocese.
  • Jeffrey and Benedictgal, I appreciate your points, your experiences, your advice et al. I really don't feel, that said, I was ratcheting up the heat level of argument; if anything, I was belaboring two major points:
    1. Distinguishing between actual, factual attributes of singular works of music versus the generalized, politically-charged and, IMO, too convenient option of indicting individuals (and their publishers) with a "guilt by association" raison d'etre.
    2. The wholly unnecessary use of superlatives such as "insipid" that reduces its targeted person or association's intent and product by prejudice (at least in this forum.) Is his "Ubi Caritas" collection to be included just because it bears his signature? (Or was that just Hurd being a profliteer?)

    I very much regret poor decision making in areas of programming and performance practice in any liturgical situation. But there isn't a causal link, really, between deficiencies locally, and the mediums of expression that Hurd or any other "contemporary" composer have had put into a free marketplace. As you, BG, state above, all politics are local in the end. But I think the solution is similar to Gavin's suggestion in another thread- we put away whining and wishing and get to addressing these deficiencies ourselves. That is why I'm a member of CMAA, because I recognize that it is about positive philosophies and practices that revitalize the spirits of its members, who then "go home" and re-work the vineyard from soil to fruit.

    Jeffrey, I hope you recognize that I'm actually trying to lower the heat level by simply suggesting we try to refrain from personalizing/demonizing/mischaracterizing Christian souls and their efforts rather than to positively address the original concern of each thread.