St. Patrick's NYC - New Hymnal
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 101
    Actually, not sure exactly how "new" this is , but sometime in 2019, the old hymnals ( a multi-lingual one I had never heard of and don't recall the name) was replaced by the St. Michael's Hymnal. Based on leafing through the prior one, it is a distinct improvement.
  • Toddevoss,

    Frequently, musical upgrade is part of a plan of liturgical improvement which includes such ideas as restoring communion rails, ad orientem celebrants and such. Do you know if these things have already happened, or if they are planned or... is this musical change just window dressing?
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 101
    Chris Garton-Zavesky. Have no idea.
  • davido
    Posts: 182
    It’s St Pats NYC - doubt its going full trad anytime soon
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,612
    Didn’t they start using the main altar? I think before the renovation there was a second altar placed closer to the front of the sanctuary.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 101
    Yes the main altar is used. I moved here in 2011 and since the renovation was completed I haven't seen anything other than the main altar used for mass.
    Thanked by 1matthewj
  • I was there on tour in late April and I remember that the Masses were always quite rushed - they have Masses on the hour and sometimes the half hour, Sundays and weekdays alike. It’s quite something.

    It’s well within Dr. Pascual’s musical agenda (at least from what I can tell after speaking with her a little) to have a traditional hymnal in the pews. A great victory indeed for an archdiocese otherwise marred with scandal.

    The old hymnal was OCP’s (I think) One Faith, Una Vos.
  • The free-standing "table altar" was installed during the reign of John Cardinal O'Connor (1984-2000), who actively cultivated a media-friendly relationship with the press, T.V, etc.

    His successor, Edward Cardinal Egan, had much better liturgical and aesthetic sensibilities, and personally eschewed its use in favor of the High Altar which he used at every Pontifical Mass I ever attended with him.

    It was actually removed long before the full cathedral restoration began.

    Jes' sayin' is all.

    Gaudete in Domino Semper!
  • This is an exciting development. Thank you!
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 101
    Attended the St. Patrick's 10:15 am with choir this morning ( I have never attended a Sunday mass there). This is the big one. It was very packed. The music was very good. I may have missed the entrance antiphon although there was also a processional hymn. The mass setting was Missa de Angelis for all the ordinary except the Agnus Dei which the Choir sang from the Missa Choralis by Licinio Refice. The Credo was in Latin and sung to Credo I I believe. The Pater Noster was in Latin and sung. I would say at least some of those attending knew the sung Latin (a nice bulletin enabled one to read the words and music as well for the ordinary). I chanted my little heart out. For Propers as follows:
    A responsorial Psalm was sung with setting by Alstott. The choir sang the verses and the people and Cantor sang the response. Both Choir and Cantor were excellent. For the Offertory, an Anthem was sung by the Choir - Exulta et Lauda by Licinio Refice. This does not appear to correspond to the Antiphon called for in the GR as far as I can gather.(Esther 14). But it was very beautiful. So I guess it was an "suitable liturgical song". The Preface Dialogue was not sung by Cardinal Dolan or the congregation (it was all spoken) - no surprise as he is not confident (he didn't sing the Incipit for the Gloria either - the Cantor did). So that was a little disappointing ( I come from a Lutheran upbringing where the Preface Dialogue is always sung no matter what and I do mean no matter what - even if there are only 40 people present and Pastor doesn't sing/chant very well). I will come back to the Eucharistic Prayer as a whole. One odd thing , is that the Mystery of Faith that was sung in Latin (nice) was notated in the bulletin as Missa de Angelis. That surely can't be right can it since there was no separate Mystery of Faith acclamation pre V2 in the centuries when Missa de Angelis was composed? I assume that should have just been notated as from the GR. As noted above, the Choir sang the Agnus Dei from the Missa Choralis and it was quite beautiful. The Choir also sang the Communion Antiphon for the day in Latin. Then two Anthems by Palestrina - Sicut Cervus and Sitivit anima mea. There was also a hymn. After the dismissal , we chanted the Salve Regina. The Recessional hymn was How Great Thou Art.

    As far as the Eucharistic Prayer, it was very disappointing that - wait for it - E2 was used at the "highest" mass of the Day. Of course it is disappointing that it is ever used on a Sunday as it is neither recommended nor truly fitting. But what blows my mind is how its striking contrast to the elaboration of the rest of this type of "high" Liturgy is not glaringly obvious to Cardinal Dolan. Couldn't he at least use E3? Or give God the extra few minutes it takes to use E1? Yes this mass was long with the huge communion lines, but once you are well over an hour - what's another 3-5 minutes?

    For those wondering, I wasn't sitting there as a detached observer /liturgical critic. I entered fully into the prayer of the Mass and did not allow myself to be distracted by the small disappointments. Those further comments came on later reflection.
  • agincourt
    Posts: 11
    Last time I was in NYC at St. Patrick's for Sunday Mass, the Sistine Chapel Choir sang (and the relics of Padre Pio also available for veneration). So, very crowded (separate line to venerate the relics which extended well outside the Cathedral, moved slowly throughout Mass). And to credit Cardinal Dolan, after the center aisle had finished receiving communion, instead of returning to his chair, he came over to the side aisle and continued to help with distribution of communion which meant my daughter received from him. Despite the old hymnal (now replaced), the music selections for the congregation were well chosen and not at all "pop" in nature. And much in Latin as noted above (and it would seem not simply because the Sistine Chapel choir in attendance).
    Thanked by 1toddevoss