Translation of a Page of 1912 Antiphonal?
  • Jz00533
    Posts: 32
    Can anyone translate the Latin of the introduction and the footnote of this page from the 1912 Antiphonale?

    This is the beginning of the section where is lists all of the Pre-Urban hymns. Does that footnote basically say that they can be used in place of the Urban hymns?
    Screenshot_2019-08-25 Antiphonale 1912 - antiphonale-bw pdf.png
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  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    On the contrary. The footnote says For the sake of those who legally or by custom or indult are permitted to us such Hymns.

    The introduction blurb there says
    1. Each of these Hymns has the same tune as the corresponding Hymn in the Antiphonal unless otherwise noted.

    2. Whenever a Hymn in the Antiphonal has a special adaptations of rhythm or words including doxology due to the feast or season or current octave, the corresponding adaptation must be made here.

    3. In this appendix some Hymns are included straight from the Antiphonal because there is no ancient version of them.
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  • Jz00533
    Posts: 32
    Interesting. I wonder who would have used them back then? Or who had that custom or indult, or how one would obtain it.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @Jz00533

    Unfortunately the English Private schools at the time had no vacancies for Latin Schoolmasters or had not advertised at Rome. So instead of correcting schoolboy errors they took to correcting some of the finest poets, why you may ask, because their Latin was not in the style these under employed schoolmasters wished.

    Not everyone was taken in and a number of places refused to use the new 'corrected' Hymns including a number of the Stational churches including the Vatican and St. John Lateran. I did see a list somewhere once...
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  • Jz00533
    Posts: 32
    Interesting. So I wonder if those places which initially refused the new hymns could licitly use the old hymns to this day when they pray the Extraordinary Form Office?

    Beyond that, I wonder if an indult may still be given if a priest were to request it from Rome.

    I certainly think the “mutual enrichment” Benedict XVI spoke about could be realized in a small way if the old hymns were permitted by Rome in the Extraordinary Form Office, given that they are (for the most part) restored to the Ordinary Form Office.
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Interesting. So I wonder if those places which initially refused the new hymns could licitly use the old hymns to this day when they pray the Extraordinary Form Office?


    Yes, those places that had the use of the old hymns should be using them when they say the Divine Office. Of course people should observe the Feasts of the local calendar... But how do you find out what the calendar was?

    Beyond that, I wonder if an indult may still be given if a priest were to request it from Rome.


    Some suggest that the request to return to the original translations applies to the EF. For most of us (we are not bound to say the Office) we could use the old Hymns if we want or use the Office before Pius X started messing around. It may be worth asking if you are bound to recite the Office.

    given that they are (for the most part) restored to the Ordinary Form Office.

    While it was the idea and many people think the new Liturgy of the Hours uses the old Hymns... that is far from the truth. The red pen of a talented underemployed Latin schoolmaster named Lentini attacked the hymns removing things he did not like. He also wrote many new Hymns very nice they are, but it would have been better to bring back into use many suitable ancient hymns that are far more deserving.
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  • Jz00533
    Posts: 32
    Some suggest that the request to return to the original translations applies to the EF.


    What request are you referring to?

    Also, I’m aware of the modifications they made to the LOTH hymns, but I didn’t think that the modifications were that extensive. In any case, they’re closer to the originals than the Urban hymns, right?

    I am not bound to recite the Office, but want to follow the rubrics. The debate often comes up as to whether or not the lay faithful pray the Office liturgically; I think they do. But even if they don’t, following the rubrics as much as humanly possible is a wise idea I think.
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