Easter triduum: Reveal any positive happenings!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Maybe there is an escape for next year. I looked in the Missal for a new translation for this chant, and not only was it not there, but there was no reference to it. As far as I could see, it's no longer part of the Vigil (could be wrong).
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    I will definitely ask the pastor about this. If he determines that it is not part of the vigil in the new Missal, that will silence the RCIA leader who promotes this response. Thanks, Kathy.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    Ben Yanke and CharlesW: I inherited that acclamation. We've used it for two years. I can't stand it. Next year, I'm thinking about simply using the Vulpius "Alleluia."
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    Charles, as promised, the updated Wisdom of God.
    WisdomOfGod.pdf
    170K
    Thanked by 1Charles in CenCA
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,332
    Ben, that harmonization is indeed reprehensible! Just the "sol, la, ti, do!" flourish at the end is worth a few extra moments in purgatory in my estimation!

    With what did you replace it?
    Thanked by 1amanda.palister
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Maybe there is an escape for next year. I looked in the Missal for a new translation for this chant, and not only was it not there, but there was no reference to it. As far as I could see, it's no longer part of the Vigil (could be wrong).


    Isn't it part of the RCIA, which the Missal defers too for the various bishops' conferences?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Kathy,

    Was that response ever in the missal in the first place? Did you look in the RCIA Ritual Book?

    During the vigil, we found ourselves switching back and fourth between the Missal and the ritual book because some of the rites are in the missal, some in the ritual books. (it was an MC's nightmare!) So even if it's not in the missal, it may be in the ritual book for Christian Initiation, with is still in effect. The baptism rite itself isn't in the missal, so one wouldn't expect to see the acclamation there either.

    I haven't checked the ritual book, so I'm not arguing either way, but I just want to point that out.

    Here's the one we used at my parish this year, which is much more dignified that the widely-used one.

    webpage | pdf | mp3

    We sung the refrain only, without the verses, first by the choir and organ, then taken up by the people and brass quintet as well for the second and subsequent times.

    If you listen to that mp3, you kind of have to listen past the piano and handbells and interesting verses, but it's actually quite a nice refrain when played well on an organ alone.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    They totally made it up, as far as I can tell. And they don't do any of that crud at the Vatican.

    However, I think there was an option for the PRIEST to say, "You have put on Christ" among all the other things he says and prays after a Baptism. Why we've got to do priest stuff, I don't get.
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    Actually in the Ritual book (Rite of Baptism for children)...it does have "You have put on Christ "(no. 102):

    "Next there is a procession to the altar....A baptismal song is appropriate at this time, e.g. You have put on Christ..."

    Also, see no. 97
    "After the child is baptized, it is appropriate for the people to sing a short acclamation " (nos. 225-245)
    This list includes "You are God's work of art" and some other things...


    Sorry I know that doesn't make anyone happier.. for the first one it does say this "song" CAN be sung at this time (not must) so that's nice.

    I always wondered where my parish got "You are God's work of art"... which is actually in the list. I thought it was sort of weird. We changed it to a different option... Alleluia! Better anyways.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    @redsox1: we used the Vulpius Alleluia after each baptism, and it seemed a decent thing to do, though I doubt it's in the Rite.

    If we're going to interpolate a musical fanfare after baptisms, we may as well steal from the Byzantine rite and sing, "All of you who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ, allelu-i-a."
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Every year I'm VERY tempted to have the choir sing "I went down to the river to pray, studyin' about the good old way ..."
  • Easter Vigil--hired a mezzo soprano and baritone to sing all the responsorial psalms and lead all the hymns. Gorgeous duet of Franck's Panis Angelicus

    Easter Sunday--adorable children's choir who sang "Regina Caeli" unaccompanied
    Easter Sunday--mezzo soprano and alto sang Sequence duet. Beautiful.

    Holy Thursday--3-part Ave Verum Corpus sung acapella
  • mantoniomantonio
    Posts: 22
    Thanks to all the contributors of this forum who helped us to have the best Sacred Triduum ever. I've only been on this forum for about two months and have already downloaded scores of valuable resources and have read more expert advice than I can handle.
    In the community of consecrated women where I reside, about 90% of the people leave for Holy Week evangelization missions, leaving the liturgical music to me and about 10 novices who have little musical formation. Yet we still have to do our very best, because about 60 young women come to do their Sacred Triduum retreat with us and rightly expect to have a beautiful experience...
    For the first time ever, we sang a gregorian chant mass setting (Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, etc.) for the solemn masses, accompanied by organ. My choir of ten novices diligently learned the gregorian chant Ubi Caritas for Holy Thursday and O Cruz Fiel y Venerable for Good Friday. We introduced several new beautiful psalms.
    Several of the retreatants came up to me afterwards, saying things like, "That was the most beautiful Mass ever...what was that chant thing you sang?", "Can I get a copy of your hymnal?", "In my parish they use too many guitars and drums...how can I convince them to make the music more solemn?" Just goes to prove that young people do know how to appreciate truly sacred music.
    Keep up the good work everyone!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Happy moments:

    Choir NAILING Sicut Cervus and Vidi Aquam at the Easter Vigil AND Easter Day.

    Choir commenting after Easter Sunday, "That was a really good program this year." (Happy about that because I strove to find a balance of "old favorites" and high-quality, liturgically appropriate pieces, so that they could start learning to love the good stuff; and I think I succeeded.)
  • Mantonio--it's amazing how so many people nowadays have no real knowledge of gorgeous sacred music. I'm running across a lot of opposition in my parish to chant and organ music by most, but some people are telling me they feel they're finally back in church after all these years. My choir is dealing with it, although they are finding it difficult and "boring". I lost all my musicians earlier this year because of organ music versus guitars, drums and other instruments. I think it depends on the quality of the people who are playing and singing the "boring" music. For Easter Vigil I hired a mezzo soprano and a baritone from the local conservatory and they were wonderful together. If people do not hear the sacred music done properly they will surely shy away from it, as the contemporary music is easier to sing.
    Thanked by 1mantonio
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    (What a nice little thread to revive!)
    Here's my cute little story from the year:

    So on Holy Thursday, I knew that the pastor (while otherwise a good priest who follows and preaches what the Church teaches,) was planning on inviting *anyone* (gag) to come up who wanted their feet washed after the chosen men were finished.
    So, I'm up in the loft doing music with the choir, and we finished one thing but there will still 3 men remaining to have their feet washed. I *knew* that the pastor was probably going to need to make an announcement about people coming up, but what was I supposed to do? I started the next song. We were in the middle of the refrain when the pastor got up and said something to the congregation, and (possibly b/c no one could understand him b/c of the music- which I promise wasn't my intent!) not a single person got up! lol! yay!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Yikes, Joy, does this story really strike the "cute" chord, or the "SNAFU" alarm? In any case, for arguably the third most important liturgy of the entire year, this sort of cavalier approach towards ritual preparation would shake me to my very foundation. Is this a parish that has no sense of missio?
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    CCC-
    I'm not exactly sure what aspect you're referring to about lack of "ritual preparation," but you don't need to sound quite so condescending, b/c, trust me, this particular parish is far more liturgically-aware and attempts to follow the rubrics than probably 90% of the nearby parishes... (most of whom I'm sure did some far goofier things during the Triduum. I'm not saying that b/c we are "better" than them that we were perfect, but one little miscommunication or snafu [again, sorry, I'm not exactly sure what "cavalier approach" you were referring to,] really isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.)
  • I really apologize having misread or misunderstood how your pastor decided to invite "anyone" apparently on the fly. The way the anecdote was laid out seemed to have him "interrupting" both the mandatum and the music you prescribed via an announcement over your PA. It remains unclear to me whether these people were needed because there were three men short of a dozen, or he was extending a charitable gesture towards all. If this is an anomoly in your parish, great. But, you have to admit that your own stated responses, ie. "anyone (presuming women?)....gag....not a single person got up...lol....yay...." does not portray, at face value, a major portion of a significant ritual action that underscores our fundamental calling to be "servants of the servants." I know and keep up with your doings on your blog, and I know you are one serious liturgist and musician. I also have a profound respect for the Mass of the Lord's Supper, replete with the Mandatum and the Deposition that, for me, is a singularity among all solemn Masses. I didn't mean to come off as condescending, I just didn't get the "cute" part of the story at all. Sorry.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,847
    we sang ford's vidi aquam... quite authentic! congrats dr ford.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Ben,

    Are you referring to me?

    My disdain for this piece is heretofore publicly expressed!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,198
    *bump*

    Because it might have been overlooked by many of you at a time when we were all decompressing from Holy Week and the Easter Triduum, I'm actually bumping and (re)calling attention to tomboysuze's heart-wrenching but uplifing post in this thread, which is at:

        this link.

    My own response is three posts further down. I sent an email message about this to 35 people, mostly friends, family, and musical colleagues with the above link and a link to my reponse, asking them to read and, if at all possible, help this noble cause. A few of you were recipients of that email.

    Since making a small contribution, I've been following the ChipIn tracker, seeing an initial bumpup in activity for a few days and, since then, virtually no movement, at 25% of the goal. When the first of May arrives, I'll make another contribution.

    In the meantime, I sincerely urge you, please, to email your friends and any contacts who might be so disposed and in a position to help. And, if you can chip in even a small amount, it would be a big help.

    I can only attest to the great comfort it has given me to be able to help people who are truly in need, both in the past and now. We have been helping a neighbor with two children who moved into the duplex next door, a good woman and great mother, facing continued obstacles and torment from an abusive and uncooperative ex-husband. In a lesser way, we are helping a person with health and other issues, a frend, who lives in California and is, in fact, a Catholic who attends a parish served by one of the regular contributors here – small world.

    All of you have given so much to me in terms of camaraderie, moral support, and helpful information, and I'm sure you've done the same for each other many times. For this I am profoundly thankful to each of you. There are times, however, when we are called upon to do more, and we are just as grateful and enriched when our dear Lord places us in a position to help someone in need.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    http://musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/comment/69708#Comment_69708

    I was actually talking to IrishTenor (who is also a Ryan), but I think across this entire board, there is a distain for that piece!
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    I would really like some more information on whether its use is required. The associate pastor did a baptism this morning, and for the first time, didn't sing it. I think it must not be in the baptismal liturgy anymore. If that is true, maybe I can find some ammo to neutralize the RCIA leader before next Easter Vigil.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Well, I had to go and make some scans of the baptism ritual book for me to review at home for a baptism I'm MCing next week (yes, MC is a verb, at least in my book :) ), so I thought I mind as well share the some of the pages to give everyone more context concerning the post-baptism acclamation.

    I've attached a PDF of all of the pertinent pages from the ritual book. This is from the book for baptisms of children, but I'd imagine the RCIA book isn't too different. Maybe I'll check if I can find it next time I'm down at church.

    After checking out the book, two things stuck me:

    -The book uses the words "It is appropriate that [the acclamation be sung.]" Not a command, but certainly a preference in favor of using an acclamation at that time.
    -There are many options, about 30, I believe, for the acclamation directly after baptism. Interestingly, the common text (You have put on Christ...) is not given there. The only place it is given is for usage during the procession back to the sanctuary, not directly after the baptism. Now one could make a reasonable case that it was meant to also possibly be used after the earlier as well, but it doesn't say that explicitly.

    So now here's the source text, now we can maybe come to a conclusion?

    "I think it must not be in the baptismal liturgy anymore."

    The Baptism liturgy hasn't changed. Yet.

    Don't forget that it may change in the new translation, but right now, the old ritual books are still in effect for baptism (unless, by chance, there's some sort of baptism rite in the new roman pontifical, which has already been released. It's a beautiful book, btw...).

    Don't forget, there's other options as well. Maybe some composer on this board will take the other texts found at the end of the attached PDF and set them to some chant melody...
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    .
    Acclamation-controversy.pdf
    7M
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    Our Triduum has acquired a stable repertory that serves well year in and year out. When I suggested a different set of Lamentations, I heard, "we can't, we've always done the Victoria." The most exceptional piece of the week has always been Tallis, Sancte Deus. The liturgies were celebrated in the Ordinary Form, and in Latin except for the lessons and intercessions (including Good Friday). Highlights of the chant were the tracts on Palm Sunday and Good Friday; while they are quite long, they form an effective preparation for the singing of the Passions.

    Palm Sunday: procession with chanted Gloria, Laus et Honor; propers from Graduale Romanum, Ordinary, Mass XVII; motets: Morales, Vigilate et orate; Tallis, Sancte Deus; Victoria, O vos omnes, Passion chanted in English.

    Tenebrae of Holy Thursday (Wednesday evening): Latin Tenebrae as in the Liber Usualis with one nocturne; Lamentations of Victoria.

    Holy Thursday: Proper and Ordinary in Gregorian chant, except for Morales, Gloria from Missa Caça; Victoria, Vere languores; Byrd, Ave verum corpus.

    Good Friday: chanted Passion in English; Victoria, Improperia; Tallis, Sancte Deus; Victoria, O vos omnes.

    Easter Vigil: the three canticles from the tradition; Palestrina, Sicut cervus at the sprinkling; Morales, Gloria from Missa Caça; Anon. English (Worcester) Agnus Dei; Lasso, Surrexit Pastor Bonus.

    Easter Sunday: propers from Graduale Romanum; Palestrina, Missa Laudate Dominum for two choirs; Gallus, Alleluia, In Resurrectione Tua. Congregation sang the sequence, Victimae Paschali Laudes.

    Footnote: The octave of Easter was celebrated with a repeat of the sequence (again by the congregation), with motets: Gallus, Stetit Jesus and Victoria, O Decus Apostolicum. Mass I sung by the congregation; propers from the Graduale Romanum.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    oh, Dr. Mahrt.... you make us all sooo jealous...
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Ben
  • Palm Sunday: lovely procession preceded by the SEP introit sung by my children's choir.
    "All Glory, Laud, and Honor" during the procession. SEP propers throughout the Mass along with "O Sacred Head Surrounded" and "My Song is Love Unknown" as well as "At the Name of Jesus". This is certainly an improvement on previous years, which had no procession, no propers, and were graced by "The King of Glory Comes, the Nation Rejoices" and "Were You There".

    Good Friday: the adult schola sang the reproaches in English plainchant from "By Flowing Waters". Reproaches had never been done here before. We sang psalm and gospel acc. from the VII hymnal (better than OCP), and had five polyphonic motets during veneration and communion, "O Jesu Christe" by J. van Berchem, "Vere languores", "O Vos Omnes" and "Tradiderunt Me" by Victoria, and "Tenebrae Factae Sunt" by M. Ingegneri.

    Easter Vigil: though a woman cantor is certainly not the preferred and desirable option, I sang the Exsultet which was a BIG improvement, trust me, on how it'd been sung before. In previous years the melody has been totally off, and the guy kept getting lost every two lines and having to re-pitch himself on his pitch pipe. I also led the litany of saints, which was also an improvement. We had 7 baptisms (Deo gratias!) and 6 confirmations. Though I was not able to include propers in this Mass (I had to work with several other cantors and the other organist, none of whom have any clue about proper liturgical music), we did do some better hymns than we have in the past, such as "Ye Sons and Daughters" and "Jesus Christ is Risen Today".

    All in all, a pretty good Holy Week, especially considering that we're out in the middle of rural Wyoming!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen