Thinking of Resigning
  • I'm considering resigning my organist position at the end of August. The music I'm being asked to play is taking a turn for the worse, and I've been given an entirely new Mass setting to learn (Mass of Christ the Savior). There is no hope of things improving as the changes are coming from the pastor. I'm also being cut down to four Masses a month regularly (previously, it was never fewer than six, frequently more). On top of all that, I'm starting nursing school in September and am going to be very busy.
  • Young Catholic Girl,

    From your description, the pastor (and whoever has his ear) is asking you to leave.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,025
    Good luck to you, and God bless you.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Prayers for you in this difficult time, Young Catholic Girl. CG-Z is probably right. Perhaps a new & better opportunity will arise once you are in nursing school. Speaking of nursing school, good luck in pursuing a noble profession.
  • Prayers and best wishes, both for your choice with the current position and your start with nursing school. My lead cantor (EF) is a nurse (she is an alto)... so resigning your position shouldn't necessarily mean the end of your involvement in liturgical music... perhaps simply more of a hiatus.

    Should you resign, make sure to do so in a way that doesn't burn any bridges. That doesn't mean that you don't have to share some of your frustrations or concerns (although you don't have to if you think it would be more confrontational than productive), but certainly provide enough notice that they can find a replacement.

    Above all, keep in touch! If nothing else, solicit prayers from time to time!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I think about resigning at least once a week. LOL. I hope you know just how hard nursing school is. I know a young organist who had to give up a position for that reason. She had no time for anything but school.

    Prayers for you and hope you have every success in nursing school.

    That pastor sounds like an arse, anyway. You will be better off away from him.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I would suggest that it would probably be better for you to leave your organist position before the beginning of the academic year, regardless of how good your church job is. Nursing school is not easy (I know several nurses, active and retired, at my parish), and, especially since your church position is becoming more stressful than gratifying, it would probably be better not to have that extra pressure at the weekends right now. I certainly agree that you should give notice in a way that won't burn bridges, and, verily, you have such a reason: You are leaving to go to nursing school. Prayers and best wishes for you!
  • Many thanks to everyone. I will be submitting my resignation at the end of July, effective August 31st
  • YCG,

    You could assert (quite honestly) that you don't think you'll be able to divide your attention well between nursing school and the demands of learning new music. That way, although the new music is definitely a part of why you're resigning, you're avoiding this sentence: "If you want me to play trash, ....."

  • From your description, the pastor (and whoever has his ear) is asking you to leave.

    It reads like “constructive dismissal”, which is illegal.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    I once had a pastor come in who had very different liturgical ideals than I did. Within 2 weeks (novus ordo parish, mind you) using the communion rail wasn't even an option (previous pastor had a new rail installed and reinstituted its use!); I had been asked to stop singing entrance antiphons (only Bartlett's simple English for heaven's sake), cut back on communion antiphons, and there were lay ministers sitting in the sanctuary with the priest during mass (where the servers would ordinarily sit; some of these people didn't even have a liturgical function whatsoever... sacristans, lectors, the lady who watered the flowers... you name it... everyone was in the sanctuary!). Long story short, it became perfectly evident that a.) I wouldn't win and b.) there was no reconciling our—to be perfectly frank—irreconcilable views on the liturgy. I can tell you that as scary as it is to leave a job, your soul will definitely feel more at peace when you can retreat to somewhere that actually respects the liturgy.

    While I was still toughing it out, I would sit on the organ bench literally screaming on the inside. There were masses that I was so upset I didn't even go up for communion because I thought it would be sinful for me to receive our Lord in such a state... If you are experiencing these symptoms, perhaps it's better for your soul if nothing else.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    SponsaChristi wrote:
    It reads like “constructive dismissal”, which is illegal.

    I'm not sure where Sponsa is writing from; but in the US, a lot of laws about employment don't apply to church musicians, because we are considered engaged in the church's ministry, and of course a church has a complete right to choose its ministers. If a musician doesn't have a contract with the parish, he can probably be dismissed at will.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    Correct. For those not familiar with US legal culture on at will employment - understand that this is not deep legal analysis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 364
    What I find appalling is the sheer cowardice of it: if you don’t like what a musician is providing, have a performance discussion with them. If it’s clear you (Reverend Father!) are coming from a very different place to your musician, do the right and decent thing: create a severance package that is respectful and fair, so you can both part ways with dignity and justice.

    The cowardice, injustice and immortality of making working conditions increasingly stressful and unpleasant in the hope that a person will ‘decide’ to leave is appalling.

    It’s probably time to call these tactics out.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Let's face facts: the new liturgy actually creates clericalism, because its insistence on options puts EVERYTHING under the control of the celebrant.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    I'm sorry about this. But you know, with all you have going on in the fall, it may be a blessing. And you can look around for the job which makes your heart sing. Best wishes and enjoy nursing school. Such an amazing vocation!
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    Let's face facts: the new liturgy actually creates clericalism, because it's insistence on options puts EVERYTHING under the control of the celebrant.


    Alas, this is what most people think, but this is not what the documents say:
    GIRM 111. There should be harmony and diligence among all those involved in the effective preparation of each liturgical celebration in accordance with the Missal and other liturgical books, both as regards the rites and as regards the pastoral and musical aspects. This should take place under the direction of the rector of the church and after consultation with the faithful in things that directly pertain to them. However, the Priest who presides at the celebration always retains the right of arranging those things that pertain to him.


    The underlined section is new to the 2011 edition of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and is supported by the following, especially the part in bold.

    GIRM 352. The pastoral effectiveness of a celebration will be greatly increased if the texts of the readings, the prayers, and the liturgical chants correspond as aptly as possible to the needs, the preparation, and the culture of the participants. This will be achieved by appropriate use of the many possibilities of choice described below.

    Hence in arranging the celebration of Mass, the Priest should be attentive rather to the common spiritual good of the People of God than to his own inclinations. He should also remember that choices of this kind are to be made in harmony with those who exercise some part in the celebration, including the faithful, as regards the parts that more directly pertain to them.

    Since, indeed, many possibilities are provided for choosing the different parts of the Mass, it is necessary for the Deacon, the readers, the psalmist, the cantor, the commentator, and the choir to know properly before the celebration the texts that concern each and that are to be used, and it is necessary that nothing be in any sense improvised. For harmonious ordering and carrying out of the rites will greatly help in disposing the faithful for participation in the Eucharist.
  • ...be attentive rather to the common...good...
    And, of course, this means whatever the priest wants it to mean, in other words it means to most priests that his preferences and the 'common good' are equivalent, synonymical. It is notable that, as usual, nothing is said au concret.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor tomjaw
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Well, if your definition of “common good” has more to do with the temperature of the thermostat than the state of peoples souls… It’s hardly surprising that this directive is abused.
  • By having lay people seated with him in the sanctuary, he is stacking the deck.
  • Dr. Ford,

    That part's not in purple.... so, are you serious?
    However, the Priest who presides at the celebration always retains the right of arranging those things that pertain to him.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    Chris, I don't know how to use purple; but I AM serious. Paul
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    "...always retains the right..."

    hogwash... that may be 'the law', but (IMHO) it is definitely errant in terms of tradition and out of respect for the rite, should never have come to this... THIS is why abuse is rampant.
    Thanked by 1Antonio
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    francis - There are traditionally options, such as votive Masses at the discretion of the celebrant. There may well be too much flexibility at the moment, but the previous situation where almost everything was controlled by a “crowd of dirty little monsignori at Rome in utter ignorance of the meaning or reason of anything” was also unsatisfactory, in the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Bishops at VII. (2000 to 4 was it?)
  • I submitted my resignation yesterday and it was accepted. I've been asked if I can still play at Christmas and other feasts, and I said I can if I don't have to learn a new Mass setting.
  • jcr
    Posts: 132
    It is always a shame when sincere and dedicated musicians are placed in such positions. There was a fellow in Texas who used to publish a newsletter for protestant church musicians (mostly Baptist and Methodist, I believe) who encouraged all church musicians to have a sideline that could be taken with them wherever they went. He recommended something like one of the soap, vitamin, etc. programs. He thought that the employment situation in many churches was very precarious and too unstable for people with families who were not independently wealthy. On one occasion he footnoted a job listed on his job availability list by pointing out that the church in question had had seven music directors in the past two years and that anyone who was considering interviewing for this position should do so with that in mind.

    Although I have always loved the church and its music, I have always recognized the political and personal precariousness of it as a career or as part of a career. For someone who is responsible for the support of a family or others, this could be a discouraging fact of life. I have a friend who left full time church work, went back to school, took a degree in Electrical Engineering and plays part time now. He is an excellent organist and an all around fine musician.

    I hope that those stung by these and other hazards of this field will persevere anyway and find ways to do it in spite of the cowardice, ethical impoverishment, and and general poor character of those in charge of entirely too many parishes. Unfortunately, the cost of this is very high and few there be willing to pay it.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    the employment situation in many churches was very precarious and too unstable for people with families who were not independently wealthy


    I have left full-time church employment due to this very reason, jcr. I had a glorious job in a stunning ROTR OF parish, we got a new pastor, and it quickly became a not-so-glorious job. I realized that this could happen anytime and anywhere and started planning my exit strategy. I won't risk my family's well-being. I'm still playing and conducting part-time for now, but who knows what the future will bring.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,075
    youngCatholicgirl,
    how are you feeling today? I hope you are at peace with your decision. God bless.
  • Thank you so much. I and my family are so happy and at peace with the decision. I'm very thankful for this "church musicians' sanity maintenance" forum!
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Shake the dust from your sandals and move on.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Unfortunately, there are a lot of towns that get dust shaken in their faces these days...
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    @francis when you are shaking the dust from your shoes you are following in the very footsteps of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostles, St Paul, and even your illustrious namesake...
    Thanked by 2francis cesarfranck
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @tomjaw yea, my legs hurt from shaking the dust too many times...
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    For some reason I thought you lived in the American Southwest, Francis, so my new nickname for you was gonna be "Shake & Bake". ;)
    Thanked by 2francis cesarfranck
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    StimsonInRehab... are you out of rehab yet? I am a cowboy... one of the few left... Jackson, Wyoming. 'Where seldom is heard a discouraging word and the skies are not cloudy all day'.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 364
    youngcatholicgirl, there are many people here who have spent many years deciding what they will do on their last Sunday (ie. when they can’t be stopped or fired)...

    Let us know what beautiful things you do with that freedom!
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    are you out of rehab yet?


    Funny you mention that. I've resolved as a result of this Ignatian Retreat that (among other things) I'm swearing off alcohol as penance until my family converts to the Faith.
    - Prayers are appreciated on that front!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Prayers for you and yours
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    I wouldn't work for another church no matter how great it is, how wonderful, how awesome the pastor and people are or even if I was offered an iron clad multi-decade contract and a hugely generous salary.

    I teach privately now, play in several orchestras, compose, work on establishing my tiny monastic community dedicated to sacred music and the arts, and all the knowledge I have gained from studying with some of the greatest choirmasters on training boys and girls, I now write down in an ongoing book that is still unfinished; this all keeps me busy and happy.

    I still have 3 or 4 nightmares every month from my past church music episodes where I worked harder than you could imagine, gave everything of myself, and was even awarded and lauded, but soon thereafter was turned on several times by clergy that were either emotionally, mentally, morally and spiritually unhealthy or shocking corrupt and unstable. I am still in counseling.

    At my last position in San Antonio, I gave the choirs a finale blessing at the end of each mass, turned the organ off and walked away silently and told only one trusted choir member so that he could relay what had happened and how I was not allowed to attend my mother's funeral but had to play a mass. I was soon thereafter let go on the grounds I was unhappy - I wonder why? I heard afterward too that others didn't fare well either due to a continuation of horrific lies.

    My 9 choirs, adults, schola and all those wonderful kids all loved me, I heard, and I them. I am happy that what I helped to "build" and create in their hearts, minds and souls will be eternal and what the pastor built there will eventually crumble to dust.

    So, youngcatholicgirl, I understand and say, work at forgiving even though its a challenge. GOD blessing you and bring you peace.

  • Palestrina
    Posts: 364
    Ken, I'm so sorry to hear of your experience. I expect it's not unique.

    We need a separate thread about how to deal with appalling behavior. After a number of recommendations on this forum, I purchased and read, 'When Sheep Attack' and was not impressed: apart from highlighting the obvious supernatural elements at play, it didn't provide much concrete advice for dealing with issues.

    The truth is, Ken, your previous workplace should probably be paying for your counseling.

    We also know that the Church has an absymal track record when it comes to clerical misbehavior. We need to find ways of holding people to account.

    The idea that professionals should be driven out of their jobs because of the personal whims of a few toxic cabals is simply not good enough.

    Does the Church need another 'Spotlight' moment?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am reaching the age where I will retire sooner than later. I'm in a pretty good situation but my parish has its dysfunctional and obnoxious people, not so many, but enough that a more sensitive soul would be affected by them. Fortunately, I am not that sensitive and tend to be tougher than any adversaries I have met. You have to be that way if you are going to work as closely with people as does a church musician. I suspect I will never need counseling. They may after I leave, but that's their problem.
  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    CharlesW they will need counseling because they miss you and your curmudgeon-ly way of skewering the pompous and pointing out the common sense answer to the problem. Thick skin and ability to let stupidity roll off one's back should be listed in the job description for Church Music Director. Oh, and humility.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW CHGiffen Elmar
  • Although I have always loved the church and its music, I have always recognized the political and personal precariousness of it as a career or as part of a career.


    I can testify to this, in my only 4-years-long student career.

    One summer I was the interim organist at a parish an hour away. I was hired by the previous pastor, who was removed by the bishop for attempting to reform the parish liturgy (no exaggeration: the parish secretary told me so). Once the new pastor arrived, things took a turn for the worse.

    Highlights: unvested altar servers became the norm, the incense was removed, and the homily became a lame comedy show.

    Although I was paid well, 1) the liturgical hi-jinx of the new pastor made each Sunday unbearable, and 2) his musical vision and mine did not align. I got an email from the secretary saying something like, "Father wants to pick songs people already know."

    My last weekend, having been away the week before, I learned he blew a hole in the parish budget by buying a new hymnal, when the parish had just acquired 400-some copies of the Saint Michael Hymnal. That was when I put my foot down before heading my way.

    As for the Saint Michael Hymnal, I was able to rescue them and get them into another parish.

    As for the bishop...he made national headlines in recent weeks and I'll leave it at that.
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    I hate saying this, not mention even thinking it, however, in my opinion, its time for musicians in the Church to find some other better job in the outside world and leave their church music positions or form an autonomous independent church away from these so called clergy, and seek out more traditional clerics and support them. I wouldn't give the majority of these outrageous clergy one cent, time, treasure or talent of mine. They can all dance and sing their way right into the heat of oblivion (millstone around their necks included).
    Thanked by 1Little_Durufle
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    I think it only proves God's abundant grace that in the bare-decade since my conversion I've had more than sufficient weird and unpleasant situations, but I still keep persevering in faith and love God more than ever. But I keep myself uninvolved in parish stuff from now on, God willing. I just can't do intrigue and drama. Not interested. Unwilling to compromise. Don't even want to know.
    Thanked by 2Carol GregoryWeber
  • pfreese
    Posts: 147
    Re Ken, what you’re calling for sounds an awful lot like an actual schism...
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    What's a little schism among friends?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Well: he did use 'church' with a lowercase 'c'--perhaps he means a personal parish for those seeking the Reform of the Reform?
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    I've been in some unpleasant situations before. I just moved on to the next part. Persecution will always come in some form or another for doing things right, so I'm not overly disappointed.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I just moved on to the next part.


    It's funny, one of the first people I came to admire in the Church was the music director at my geographic parish, who also happened to be Director of Liturgy and Music for the diocese. We are diametrically opposed on a great many things, especially in terms of doctrine and church discipline. But she put up with a lot of persecution on her own part for what she did with the music program. She was committed to making sure people knew what was going on, and she had a wide variety of genres she chose from. Well, folks didn't like that. She was actually kicked out of the Cathedral, and eventually had her position declared redundant because (in the words of the Bishop's second-in-command)
    "We don't need one of those jobs anymore." She has since moved to Baltimore.

    I don't know why your comment brought her to mind - perhaps the idea that one can (and should) recognize persecution across the liturgical spectrum.

    seek out more traditional clerics and support them


    Ken, if by God's grace I number among the Levites, rest assured: you will have a job if you want it, and you will get a raise if you make Sunday Vespers a reality.

    What's a little schism among friends?


    My life motto! ;)
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    LOL LOL LOL You guys made my day! Yes, small "c" as in church and a personal parish. And for thought, "others" have changed so many things within the Church, one wonders just whom left whom. Yes, "they" have taken property, wealth, etc., I am just suggesting there are always options and that some of these option might be heaven sent - God is always with those that love Him and provides ways out of the "den of lions." I have seen and known some few clergy that were wonderful and they went through a living hell with other fellow clergy and policies. But they were victorious in their ways. We, on the other hand, must sometimes seek other situations out of the box and that might even mean rebuilding in very unusual and creative ways. I am hopeful with some groups like the Anglican Use Ordinariate.

    StimsonInRehab - I must admit that I miss and day dream about teaching and training children enormously (my Welsh ancestry kicking in); especially when I hear some groups singing!!! Then again, I start recalling the little poem that Sir George Guest use to tell me during my training sessions with him, and that knocks me back into reality. LOL

    The Choirmaster stood at the pearly gates
    His face was worn and old,
    He stood before the man of fate
    For admission to the fold.
    “What have you done,” Saint Peter said
    “To gain admission here?”
    “I’ve been a Choirmaster, sir,” he said,
    “For many and many a year.”
    The pearly gates flew open wide
    Saint Peter touched the bell.
    “Come in,” he said, “and choose your harp
    You’ve had your share of hell.”