Praise and Worship, and School Masses
  • JacobFlahertyJacobFlaherty
    Posts: 328
    That’s how it’s supposed to work everywhere.
    Firstly, I was referring to the fact that one shouldn’t have to fight so hard in the church to do what’s right. But I will also disagree with you-Jesus didn’t set a broad example. Was he not the one that said “the road is narrow.” He was very specific about certain things. The most important being-“seek ye first the kingdom of God and all his righteousness…“. I should not, nor should the original poster, have to worry about what anybody on the parish council or some poorly catechized assistant principal has to say about something with which they have no background or training. This is humanism run amok.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • mbwittry
    Posts: 39
    So, I'm still in the game, and without saying much, have managed to make a bit of progress. But, tonight, I was asked to attend a workshop 'for planning children's liturgies' by the school. Yes, I know....that is scary already. A SNDD gave the workshop, and the 1973 document, Directory for Masses with Children, was her bible. Although she said some good things, so much of it was just a blast of my 1970's youth. I had to look at the calendar to make certain it was 2019. I think that particular document, and its application in Catholic Schools across this country was a huge downslide, and cause of confusion in the Church. And, we are still suffering with the results over and over again......
    Thanked by 2Elmar BruceL
  • KARU27
    Posts: 184
    This is a good post about "Directory for Masses with Children" that discusses some problematic areas.
    https://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/09/03/a-second-look-at-the-directory-for-masses-with-children/
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • mbwittry
    Posts: 39
    Thanks for your comments, folks. I'm still in the trenches with some of the most ridiculous challenges, but I did survive the PW storm thus far.

    I was shot down today for choosing the hymn "Wondrous Love" for the K-4 Mass. We have sung it in the past. Since the words are so repetitive, it is easy for the children to sing and remember, and folk tunes always work. (Plus, they know it). Our CRE thinks it is not age appropriate for younger children, and we don't need to sing it outside of Lent (and never with the younger children.) Am I crazy?!!! What do they think when they see Jesus on the cross every time they walk into the church? For Stations of the Cross during Lent, she chose the song "Open My Eyes, Lord, help me to see your face...." Again, we have cordial dialogue, but I tried to explain that Jesus' sacrifice is at every Mass, and this 'theme' comes up all through the Liturgical Year, not just during Lent. Is this really how catechists of younger children think?!!!

    And, we are still not through the woods on "Stay Awake!, clap, clap, Be Ready! Clap,clap"
    for an Advent Song. I'm trying to keep that song in the school only.

    I'm just sounding off here. It is so frustrating to have music publishers dictating our liturgical life.....because it is 'in the books.'
  • mbwittry
    Posts: 39
    No wonder the confessional lines are so short..........
  • mbwittry
    Posts: 39
    Nobody here sins, except me..... LOL
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @mbwittry

    Welcome to the United Nations!

    BTDT... many times.

    There is no escape from compromise as long as you are willing to take their money. If you are a volunteer, you have nothing to lose by speaking the truth.
  • mbwittry
    Posts: 39
    I'm not a volunteer...and I compromise all over the place already. :(
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @mbwittery

    My prayers and condolences
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    I just came from a meeting with my pastor with him asking (again) for me to use some P&W music once a mass a few times a month. I understand where he is coming from, but I would like to incorporate more chant instead. This is a struggle, because when we attempt to "balance" by using both chant and PW and 70s songs and old hymn tunes, it doesn't sound cohesive as a whole. I have attempted and not been impressed with Adoro Te Devote then "Lift Up Your Hearts to the Lord." It's just plain silly to put those two side by side!

    I will say that the pastor's suggestion to incorporate slowly with a communion or "meditation" song a few times a month makes me feel a little better about scheduling the Spirit and Song or Praise and Worship. Perhaps you could "incorporate" the PW by using one piece as a prelude or "meditation hymn" or even a closing hymn?

    That being said, Spirit and Song has a few pieces that could fit well in a children's mass. If you discard the pieces with sentimentality or schmaltzy chord progressions or tired lyrics, there are some decently crafted pieces- pieces I could see being used better outside of mass, but when your back is against a wall. . . Another option i looking into the Saint Augustine Hymnal. There are some P&W-esque hymns that are better suited to the liturgy.

    Vent: I hate that we have to fight so hard to use what the church has repeatedly said is "pride of place." Children are the perfect group to teach chant to- they don't have a preconceived negative notion and they can pick it up quickly! It would not be too much work to teach our children so the next generation could execute sacred music in the liturgy much better than their parents' and grandparents' generations.
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    I see I had posted without reading your update.

    Re the Advent hymn- what about this one- less cheesy, more appropriate for liturgy. Downside is so.many.words. Upside it is from their beloved S&S https://dh8zy5a1i9xe5.cloudfront.net/shared/pdf/preview/30108802.pdf

    Another is Ambrosetti's Emmanuel. Kids would catch on to the refrain quickly.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Polska,

    What you're calling P&W is never appropriate for Mass, least of all at a Children's Mass or a Mass with a large number of children.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    Back in my parish days, we were using this children's hymnal for the school Masses. It certainly has it's problems and was basically an abridged version of Gather Comprehensive. Still, it was a step up from "Hi, God" which is what they were using previously and was easier for the younger children to hold than the regular hymnal (which was Gather Comprehensive). The leader/catechist guide at times presumed a philosophy at odds with most here on the forum, but it did make some good points and since it's target audience was catechists, it might be helpful in your situation. I no longer have the book at my disposal, but I recall reading a quote that said something like: "we should teach children music they can grow into and not out of".

    I'm not endorsing the hymnal, nor the content of the catechist guide, but that quote has always stuck with me, and I often used it when debating the school teachers who all professed to know more about liturgy, music and education than I did.

    https://www.giamusic.com/store/resource/singing-our-faith-leadercatechist-guide-hymnal-g5550l
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694

    I just came from a meeting with my pastor with him asking (again) for me to use some P&W music once a mass a few times a month. I understand where he is coming from, but I would like to incorporate more chant instead.


    I hope you have other sources of income.
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 986
    For All-School Mass (grade and high school) this morning, with a HS student population of about 80, we had 38 of them in the loft. About 22 singers, and 16 instrumentalists (there are crossovers).

    Conservative priest, but fairly ordinary community, and not a "self-selecting" group by any means. We have an EF Mass, but the sequestering is mutual between the groups, so not a huge influence from that quarter.

    Sang some solid hymnody, as well as polyphony of Byrd and Mozart. The students chant the Proper in a very basic way at the moment, but we do it.

    I won't pretend the formation is perfect, but the students are engaged and involved with a choral music program.

    All a rock band would mean, is that fewer students would take an active part in music making.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Carol Earl_Grey
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    no compromise... no... compromise.
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