Psalm 90 for the 18th Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year C
  • Kevin Anthony
    Posts: 40
    I discovered something today that I had never realized before. The response for the psalm for the 18th Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year C, is from Psalm 95: "If today you hear his voice, harden not your hearts." However, the verses are from Psalm 90. Every resource that I have found references only Psalm 90 and completely overlooks the fact that the response comes from a different Psalm. I figure that the lectionary does the same. Does anyone know why this is? Was this an oversight by those who put the lectionary together? Was there no appropriate response from Psalm 90 for this Sunday? This is the only example I know from the Sunday lectionary where the response and the verses come from different psalms, so this mixture seems odd to me.
    Thanked by 2Joseph Michael MarkB
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    This might be an error in the US Lectionary. The Latin typical edition has (Ordo Lectiononum Missae #114)

    Ps 89, 3-4. 5-6. 12-13. 14 et 17
    R(1): Domine, refugium factus es nobis, a generatione in generationem.

    See also the Twenty-Third Sunday in Ordinary Time (Year C) for the exact same responsorial psalm. This time, the US Lectionary has the correct response: ‘In every age, O Lord, you have been our refuge.’
    Thanked by 5CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn Kevin Anthony MarkB JonathanLC
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    FWIW - in England&Wales for OT18C my missal shows Ps 94(95) as 'Alternative Responsorial Psalm' with response "O that today you would listen ..." [People's Edition, CTS new Daily Missal]
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    Psalm 95, ‘If today you hear his voice’ is one of the common Responsorial Psalms for Ordinary Time, that may be used instead of the assigned psalm in the Lectionary.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Note that the response and the psalm are still supposed to be from the same option, even if an alternative is chosen.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Yes, this is an error in the USA Lectionary for Mass. It amazes me that the powers that be don't correct it (and a dozen or so additional errata noted in the listing of errata prepared by Fr. Felix Just, SJ). BTW, these errata were not approved by the members of the USCCB. They are the result of shoddy editorial work by the staff of the USCCB's Secretariat for Divine Worship.
    Thanked by 6MarkB a_f_hawkins chonak Salieri smvanroode CHGiffen
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    So, Fr., which response should be said/sung: The correct one (per editio typica), or the erroneous one in the US Lectionary?

    Also, any word on when a corrected/revised/expanded Lectionary will be issued?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Sorry, Salieri, but the answers to your questions are above my pay grade these days. There were some fun moments for me a few years ago when I was editing the Oramos Cantando / We Pray in Song hymnal: preparing bilingual responsorial psalm responses when the Spanish text conformed to the Latin editio typica of the Ordo Lectionum Missae while the English did not. Those who have a copy of that hymnal can see an example of such discrepancy in the refrains for the second responsorial psalm at the Easter vigil (Psalm 16:5 and 8, 9–10, 11). The correct response in English should read Keep me safe, O God; you are my hope, as one finds it in the 1969 Lectionary for Mass (USA).

    And, in the interest of full disclosure, there are also some errata in the responsorial psalms in the USA's Spanish-language Leccionario published by the Northeast Hispanic Pastoral Center (NY) in the mid-1980's.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Error has no rights.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Error has no rights.

    Even after the Second Vatican Council?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Error has no rights.

    Even after the Second Vatican Council?

    I think we might be having an effect on you, Father!

    Thanks for the info. Even if no new Lectionary is in the offing, it would be nice if there would at least be an official list of Errata issued by the Secretariat for Divine Worship: It wouldn't be pretty, but even the correct text pasted in to the current Lectionary would be preferable, in my mind, at least, to the wrong text being used.
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins CHGiffen
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    What I was referring to, Salieri, with my question about a_f_hawkins' "Error has no rights," is that this short formulation was often used to dismiss out of hand the erroneous beliefs of non-Catholics and non-Christians. After the promulgation of Dignitatis Humanae, persons do have the right to hold erroneous beliefs, grounded in their dignity as human beings.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Indeed Fr K I agree entirely. It was intended somewhat ironically, which is why I put it in purple. But I do believe that we should try not to follow errors in the printed liturgical texts where they are definitely errors, as here (or below).
    Wickedbible.jpg
    403 x 192 - 106K
    Thanked by 2Paul F. Ford CHGiffen
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Fr. Krisman,

    If error has no rights (which I still believe to be true) but those in error do have rights, isn't the simple solution to separate the persons from their errors, thus guaranteeing that the errors burn in the flames and the persons do not?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Good point, CGZ.
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    “Do the red; say the black.”

    (Even when the black is clearly bungled.)
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    See also this discussion at PrayTell.
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    Here's the comment from Fr. Krisman (from 2013) at the PrayTell post above:

    There are actually eight serious errata in the responsorial psalms for the temporal cycle in the USA Lectionary for Mass:

    No. 41-2 – Easter Vigil (2nd psalm) – incorrect refrain. Should be “Keep me safe, O God; you are my hope,” to translate: “Conserva me, Deus, quoniam speravi in te.”

    Nos. 44 and 45 – Easter 2 B and Easter 2 C: Incorrect psalm verses. Years B and C do not have the same verses as year A in the 1981 OLM.

    No. 63 – Pentecost, during the day – the second and third stanzas of the psalm are incorrectly reversed.

    No. 105 (second psalm) – 15th OT C – incorrect refrain. Should be “The precepts of the Lord give joy to the heart, to translate: “Iustitiae Domini rectae, laetificantes corda,” [the same refrain as that used in no. 137 (26th OT B)].

    No. 114 – 18th OT C – incorrect refrain. Should be “In every age, O Lord, you have been our refuge,” to translate “Domine, refugium factus es nobis, a generatione in generationem.”

    No. 158 – 33rd OT B – same erratum as that noted for no. 41-2.

    No. 164 – Trinity Sunday A – last verse of the canticle (Daniel 3:56) is missing.

    There are also some incorrect or missing verses in a few responsorial psalms used on various Sundays.
    Thanked by 1rich_enough
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