frogman: "we have started here". Who is "we" and where is "here"? On first read it is "CMAA" and "in these forums"; but you probably mean "some people" and "in my diocese".

I think the path you suggest is the path that many have taken. I certainly have. The fact that few hymns can measure up to (#2) forces a planner to fall back to (#1). Anyone using a hymnal has that frustration.

The direction of a solution is not in acquiring additional hymnal resources to perpetuate the poor model, but in becoming aware of the Vatican Two promoted music resources (Sacrosanctum Concilium # 117) which are eventually identified (General Instruction of the Roman Missal #48, #61, #62, #87) by name as Graduale Romanum (GR) and Graduale Simplex (GS) and acquiring these latter resources to implement the desired Vatican Two model.

The biggest hurdle is catechesis. You have to get the hymnals away from both assembly and choir, to get the assembly to do their part (Ordinaries), and the choir to do their part (Propers). Each group is doing the part that belongs to the other (as I write this, other church-job-swaps are coming to mind, and that is a rabbit hole).

My frustration for Palm-Passion Sunday Communion (replacing the very strong and very moving with "something else") was handled with selecting "something" very strong and very moving ...

Let all mortal flesh keep silence,
And with fear and trembling stand;
Ponder nothing earthly minded,
For with blessing in his hand
Christ our God to earth descending,
Our full homage to demand.

King of kings, yet born of Mary,
As of old on earth he stood,
Lord of lords in human vesture,
In the Body and the Blood
He will give to all the faithful
His own self for heav'nly food.

Rank on rank the host of heaven
Spreads its vanguard on the way,
As the Light of Light descending
From the realms of endless day,
That the pow'rs of hell may vanish
As the darkness clears away.

At his feet the six-winged seraph,
Cherubin with sleepless eye,
Veil their faces to the Presence,
As with ceaseless voice they cry,
PRAISE TO YOU LORD JE-SUS CHRI---ST,
KING OF END-LESS GLO---RY.

As with ceaseless voice they cry,
PRAISE TO YOU LORD JE-SUS CHRI---ST,
KING OF END-LESS GLO---RY.

Well, you don't have to break the rhyme to avoid the "alleluia":

As with ceaseless voice they cry,
Hosanna in the highest,
Hosanna, Lord most high.

And I thought I might add my own "Guide to choosing hymns" that I've written. I wrote this for a friend for a specific question, but I found myself sharing it with others who had questions. At some point, maybe I should refine this and publish it.

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Gavin's handy dandy guide to selecting hymns at Mass

1) First choose hymns which match the propers. In some cases it's easy (there's actually a Christmas hymn "Sing oh sing this blessed morn, unto us a child is born..."). There are other, less obvious solutions. For example, no, there's no hymn to correspond to "visionem". But any hymn which specifically related to the story of the Transfiguration will do, such as "Tis Good Lord to be Here".

1a) When that fails, consider the source of the proper text. Is it from a penitential psalm? Then perhaps a penitential hymn would work.

1b) Or equally good is to consider the spirit of the text. The "visionem" text speaks of Jesus hiding his Godhood until the proper time... and it's at communion... hmmm... "Adoro Te"! Especially if you sing "Godhead here in hiding". Subtle, but it gives the same effect.

2) If you can't use anything at all related to the propers, then look to the readings AS WELL AS the collects, propers, and other changing parts. What do these say? If they have a unity of theme, find something to correspond with it. If you find them sharing lines or emphases with hymns, then use the hymn.

3) Still not getting enough? NOW you start pulling out random hymns of the season. NOTE: An overall season does NOT have the same emphasis throughout!! For example, the first two weeks of Advent are usually very much about the Second Coming, while the last two are more about the Incarnation. VERY different music should be selected for these!! And plan wisely, you don't want to program "Forty Days and Forty Nights" because it's a random hymn and not be able to use it with the readings about the fasting because you had used it for the previous week!

4) FINALLY, as a last resort, fill in any missing "slots" with hymns of a general or ritual nature. Communion hymns at communion, hymns of thanksgiving after Mass, etc.

frogman: "And after more than 2 years I have made no progress at all."

Work on Communion first. For special days, prepare and present the Proper chant (English or Latin-and-English), give a 15+ second silence, then quietly begin the hymn intro. Work at introducing the chant more frequently, and then lengthening the chant duration. Eventually you will find it is post-Communion time when the hymn intro finally occurs, and you are implementing the GIRM # 88 optional hymn, which might not need to be implemented at every Mass.

What next: will he forbid polyphony too?

Polyphony was/is banned in Latin during Mass.

Prior to Mass I have freedom.

We are singing prior to Confirmation:

Ave Verum - Byrd

Domine Deus - Vivaldi - with strings

I Saw A New Heaven - Malcolm Archer


And as the Communion Meditation:

If Ye Love Me - Thomas Tallis

This evening we sang a Mass for the Bishop for the first time, and sang chant for the Sanctus and Agnus Dei, then for the Commuion Meditation, Thou Knowest Lord, by Purcell....I had the chance to meet him and was able to tell him that this is the same music we are singing for Mass in the morning....he described the choir as being "Well-disciplined."

We did sing a weekday Mass last Wednesday and were able to sing chant in Latin during the Mass...Jesu Dulcis at the Offertory and Ave Verum at Communion. We sat in the transept and recorded from the loft....lots of noise from the HVAC, but you can hear the Ave Verum at www.sjnmusic.com select the April 1 Mass link tab....