His Holiness, Pope Francis, on Liturgy
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    What reforms? Hasn't he done enough?


    I had heard that the cardinals were wanting someone in the office with administrative ability who could reform finances and the Vatican bureaucracy. Supposedly, Pope Francis possessed those abilities. You will have to make your own judgments on how effective he has been.
  • Maybe, if he straightens out the Vatican Bank then he can help us out with our 22 Trillion dollar US debt! May the Good Lord grant us an orthodox and loving Father for his floundering children!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Right now, I would settle for an orthodox and RICH father.
  • ...just asleep...
    Elijah saith 'He watching over Israel slumbers not nor sleeps'.
    (And Mendelssohn treated that text with great beauty.)
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Slumber Snot Norsleeps: An Insomniac's Nightmare.

    Coming soon to churches near you for your Lenten enjoyment.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Like my choir, lead us snot into temptation. Of course it starts with "ire father..."
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Any reflections on this passage from the papal address?
    “The Catechism of the Catholic Church itself adopts the mystagogical way to illustrate the liturgy, valuing its prayers and signs. Mystagogy: this is a suitable way to enter the mystery of the liturgy, in the living encounter with the crucified and risen Lord. Mystagogy means discovering the new life we have received in the People of God through the Sacraments, and continually rediscovering the beauty of renewing it.”
  • Sounds very JPII ish, (i.e. unintelligible) Even so, this language seems to jell better with Introibo ad altare Dei, rather than Cumbauya! I don't have a clue!
  • Fatima is an apparition no one is required to accept, and you know that. LOL. Private revelations are not binding on anyone.

    There has never been a private revelation where 100,000 people saw the same exact miracle! It was the greatest miracle since the resurrection and not one (Masonic) US Newspaper reported on it! (Fake News!)

    And If we look deeper into it, if the Woman Clothed with the Sunis The Blessed Virgin Mary, as Pope Paul VI declared in one of his encyclicals, than in a certain sense, The Apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima are not really a Private Revelation, but in fact part of the Deposit of Faith, and so mandatory for Salvation!

    It really seems that Fatima is in another category all by itself and all of us (even the Hierarchy and our beloved Holy Father) need to take a deeper look at it! Back on May 13, 2010 before an audience of 500,000 pilgrims, Pope Benedict XVI issued this dramatic pronouncement during his homily in the very sanctuary of the Fatima shrine: “One deceives himself who thinks that the prophetic mission of Fatima is concluded.”

    Our Lady of Fatima said to: Pray the Rosary every day! We need to act on this or things are going to get a lot worse as She had warned us!

    May Our Lady of Fatima pray for us!
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    BrotherMonk

    You are entitled to your opinion about that, but that opinion has no binding force on other Catholics or the magisterium.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Although it is still "private" as far as revelations go, The early parts of it do make some sense. The parts about World Wars I and 2, seem to have been accurate. They played out nearly as predicted, though some parts could still be questioned. Private revelations seem surrounded by legions of folks who will, essentially, believe anything and everything.

    Then there was the part about the secrets. Why would the Mother of God come to earth then give secrets which could not be revealed? Seems kind of pointless. When the "secret" was finally revealed, it was more nonsense than substance. My thought was, "this is what we've been waiting for? Why?"

    Then there was Fr. Gruner and his ilk. These folks did more to muddy the waters than anyone. It became a case of, the consecration has not been done, yes it has, no it's not, yes it is, blah, blah, blah. Even when the consecration was done and Sister Lucia agreed it was done, the naysayers and conspiracy theorists went on and on about how someone must have pressured her to get her to say that. The whole Fatima thing became an exercise in how to be petty, self-serving, and downright silly. Many who promote these apparitions have their own axes to grind and it shows.

    Again, no one is required to believe any private revelation. We have all we need to know from Tradition and Scripture.
    Thanked by 2hilluminar Elmar
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    The thing about private revelations is that they are received according to the mode of the receiver - which means that there's always a personally subjective mediation beyond the first-level reception by the receiver.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Elmar
  • Again, no one is required to believe any private revelation. We have all we need to know from Tradition and Scripture.
    Our Lady does not come all the way from heaven for us to have a take it or leave it attitude! The reason the Catholic Church is experiencing a crisis of unheard of proportions, (Scandals, disgraceful effeminate Liturgy, etc.) is precisely that millions of Catholics, and in particular, Bishops and even, sadly, Popes, treat Her APPROVED apparitions with such a lukewarm and indifferent attitude. Catholics need to get on the ball and respond to Heaven's admonitions or we will be in WWIII and the living will envy the dead. If Tradition and Scripture is enough for us, why does such a loving Mother make so many efforts to get through our thick heads?

    "As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one has never seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead." - Our Lady of Akita, Japan, October 13, 1973 (on April 22, 1984, Most. Rev. John Shojiro Ito, Bishop of Niigata, Japan, after years of extensive investigation, declared the events of Akita, Japan to be of supernatural origin)

    Notice the connection with Fatima, this apparition occurring on the anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun, October 13, perhaps the greatest public miracle of all time!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    Brother Monk

    Wipe the dust from your feet. I have been through this for years. I totally agree with you that it was not a private revelation so many claim to be because they do not want to be responsible for the content. I think everybody wants to see the fire.

    So let the fire fall.

    My website promoting the same:

    Http://www.silverwingsofthedove.org
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    More gloom and doom. Isn't it always such? I don't think the church ever "approves" apparitions. It declares them as either worthy of belief or not worthy of belief. It is still up to the individual to believe or not. As for prayer, we should all do that anyway.

    I look at Fatima and besides the problems I mentioned earlier some other things occur to me. I see the "pray the rosary" and all will be well argument made often. Billions of rosaries have been said. Russia is still not converted. Yes, there has been a resurgence in the state controlled church but it is still under the thumb of the government. There is no peace in the world with strife and war or near war everywhere. Our Lady of Fatima evidently didn't see China or any other countries that are proving to be threats to world peace. There is chaos in the church where even its leadership seems to bungle everything it touches. But yet, the consecration has been made. Does anyone else besides the hysterical crowd see inconsistencies here between what was promised and what has happened? Oh right, say more rosaries. Good luck with that.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    Charles

    Don’t worry be happy.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
    Thanked by 1BrotherMonk
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I am quite happy although there is certainly enough going on in the world to worry over. However, I didn't cause it and I can't fix it. No need to worry.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Well, I continue to pray rosaries. It's a wonderful office of prayer.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I will pray them for special events, for example, like one I did as part of a group for pro-life causes not long ago. There was another for the country before that. Normally, I don't pray rosaries. I gravitate more toward chotkis and Divine Praises. Amazing how few people actually pray the hours any more. Psalms are always good prayers, too.
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins Elmar
  • Charles:

    Unless you see all current events through the eyes of the Fatima Message, all will appear to be one large existential nightmare! The reality is Our Lady cares even more now about Her Redeemed Children, for which Her Son gave every once of His Blood, then She did at the Foot of The Cross! To see it any other way leads souls to despair which, sadly, comes through a little in your words!

    There is absolutely nothing happening now for which we should despair and lose heart over! All is happening according to the Divine Plan, have no doubt about it! That does not mean that God wills this evil being experienced everywhere, and especially by His delinquent Clergy! No! not at all! But He is permitting all this chaos in order to draw a greater good from it in the end! This is one of St. Thomas Aquinas' proofs for the Existence of God!

    So take heart Chuck!

    It is not gloom and doom to listen to the Apocalyptic warnings from heaven! No! It is pure sanity! We MUST listen to Our Lady's admonitions which will bring us safely to our Homeland, Heaven. It will become so bad, perhaps very soon (?) that unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved. Matthew 24:22. Any other vision of where we are heading will lead souls to abandon the only Arc of Salvation, which has been happening steadily since the so-called reforms of Vatican II.

    Pray, hope and don't worry! Padre Pio
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    Charles

    I am not announcing gloom and doom, I am just reiterating what Our Lady wants us to know and that is we are wandering off the right path and we need to repair our lives. SHE comes and always asks us to repair, hence the theology of reparation which began at the crucifixion. Her messages (including Fatima) gave us very clear directives on how to make reparation. To reinforce her request she appeared month after month on the same day and announced that she would do a public miracle on a particular day and everybody knew it in advance and it did take place. 70,000 people witnessed it, and all of the media including the secular media reported it.

    If we despise prophecy, then we are not open to the work of the Holy Spirit and to God in our time. We can not tell God that he can’t speak to us any longer through people, through events and through private revelation.

    The king of France chose to do this and he lost his head to the day of the warning he received since he did not follow the request from the seer who spoke to him.

    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    To clarify the context of my remarks: to caution against treating private revelation as if it had the same binding force on all Catholics as public revelation is not necessarily to despise it as prophecy. It's merely to think as a Catholic, no more nor less. Fatima is certainly not a (series) of visions I reject; I admit I find, of all the modern Marian apparitions that have been accepted or permitted by the Church, those of Lourdes the most penetrating in their simplicity and relative lack of confusion over their meaning and in that respect most classically Marian (I don't attribute confusion to Our Lady, but am aware that it's quite possible for visionaries to not be infallible narrators in all respects, as it were; another reason for the distinction between public and private revelation).
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • BrotherMonk, if we are living in chapter 13 of the book of Revelation, who was that great Angel who appeared in chapter 10? How did we go through history totally missing him?
    Thanked by 2CharlesW JL
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    My issue with many of these apparitions is this. The original messages may be fine, but people get into them and reinterpret and twist them to fit their own desires. Many times I have heard the likes of, "Our Lady wants you to do this, this, and this." My response is along the lines of, "did she tell you this directly?" Well, of course she didn't. It is a case of an individual reading their own wishes into what Our Lady actually said. There's no way anyone could use messages and apparitions for their own gain or interest, is there? Heaven forbid. What actually makes some sense originally becomes, over time, wonky and suspicious. Usually superstitious, as well.