Organ at St. Peter's in Rome
  • henry
    Posts: 244
    Watched the Mass for the Presentation of the Lord on Feb. 2 from St. Peter's. It sounded like they used the Allen organ exclusively. Does anyone know why they didn't use the pipe organ? It looked like the Allen console was situated between two choirs to the right of the altar.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    There is a long lugubrious thread on this....
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Solutions:
    Move the choirs.
    Set fire to the Allen.
    Thanked by 4Salieri M. Jackson Osborn MaestroMark32 MNadalin
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Love it!
  • henry
    Posts: 244
    It seemed like a different organist, too. Very contemporary accompaniment to the Mass of the Angels. Wonder if James Goettsche is still the organist there?
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    Build an organ on the back wall (like Cavaille-Coll proposed in the 19th century) with massive scales and wind pressures. It would speak directly down the nave. Connect it to the Tamburini.

    I was there for Mass on the Epiphany. The Allen sounded horrible. No solution will ever be perfect in filling that space, but the Allen is certainly not the answer.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,890
    It doesn’t help that the Allen is chincy. If I were Allen I’d have shipped off a humongous organ even at a financial loss for the prestige they could have garnered. In stead they shipped a ho-hum standard 3 manual to fill one of the largest sanctuaries in the world. Big mistake.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,416
    Surely we are not suggesting that if allen had put a 'humongous organ' in St Peter's, one that would 'fill the room', that all would be well. No, allen themselves are the mistake, and putting a humongous allen in St Peter's would only make the mistake humongous (as if it weren't humongous enough as it is).
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    allen themselves are the mistake

    Lol. The truth is painful And makes me regret living in this century

    Having a pipe organ is not about money. Every church prior to the invention of the simulicrum had a real pipe organ
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    What an opportunity to commission Ruffatti, an Italian firm, to build a monumental instrument. I don’t always agree with their tonal philosophy, although it seems their more recent installations are a bit more refined. They do, however, have vast experience with building large instruments.
    Thanked by 4CharlesW CHGiffen irishtenor MNadalin
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I was thinking Ruffatti, too. They could easily do the job and have the craftsmanship and experience for it. Cancel youth day or some other made-for-media event and buy a real organ with the money saved.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen irishtenor MNadalin
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,802
    Every church prior to the invention of the simulicrum had a real pipe organ

    We know very well that was not so, though sackbuts, piffari, Hardy's west gallery bands, and harmoniums have their own charms.

    I once learned that San Marco in Venice used portatives (did I read that in Moore's Vespers at St. Mark's: music of Alessandro Grandi, Giovanni Rovetta, and Francesco Cavalli?), though according to WP:it some 18c instruments are 'in residence' (La musica in basilica do San Marco). Btw, one can watch a very intriguing put-down of chest organs here.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    The organ even looks horribly cheap in that spectacular space, like a moustache on tge Mona Lisa.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW M. Jackson Osborn francis
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    We know very well that was not so, though sackbuts, piffari, Hardy's west gallery bands, and harmoniums have their own charms.


    Yep. My own church used a reed organ from 1927 until 1953 when they scraped enough together to buy a pipe organ.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    A reed organ is a REAL instrument... so are sackbuts and the other assortment of REAL instruments. What I should have said is there were no FAKE instruments until the simulicrum came along. Touche.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • BrophyBoy
    Posts: 47
    The deal with the Allen:
    -The Allen Co. paid 100,000 euros to have the organ installed in St. Peter’s.
    -The reason the company chose the model they did was because they figured that they could sell thousands of that exact model by saying “this is the exact same model in the Vatican Basilica.” If they had built some behoemeth it would have been seen as “well, yeah, but we could never afford that custom organ.” So, it’s just a stock model straight off the shelf. It plays through the public address system. No word yet on whether it will be upgraded every few years when new technology becomes available, or what.

    Oh, and I second, or third, the recommendation for Ruffatti!!
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,416
    Philistines!
    (But do they care that we should call them philistines, or worse?
    We can call them anything we want while they laugh all the way to the bank - and the Church is their willing dupe.)
    Thanked by 3CharlesW CHGiffen francis
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,802
    I don’t always agree with [Ruffatti's] tonal philosophy

    We once arrived at St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco after programs had run out for a recital and made a game of guessing what we were listening to. "Sowerby?" turned out to be Tournemire with a somewhat heavy accent.
    Thanked by 1MNadalin
  • PaxTecum
    Posts: 314
    .
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I heard a more recent Ruffatti, although only through a livestream video, at Buckfast Abbey. The organ sounded fantastic!
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,416
    .
  • KARU27
    Posts: 184
    Buckfast Abbey, hmmm.
    Purple on -
    If only we could get the Vatican to raise money by selling a cheap alcoholic beverage, and then the Vatican too could afford a proper organ.
    Maybe some Vin Mariani!
    Purple off - -
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • BrophyBoy
    Posts: 47
    The Buckfast Abbey Organ is absolutely spectacular!! English in the front and French in the back. It doesn’t get any better than that!!
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
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