Bach as Mystic
  • thredboskier345
    Posts: 15
    Dear Friends,
    I once heard an anecdote, that Bach once had a vision of Christ. He was found by his wife in tears, she asked him what had happened, and he explained what he had seen...
    Can anybody verify this for me, or reference a source?

    Many thanks!
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Bigger question: Does God appear to Non-Catholics?
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    Of course! How else would non-Catholics or non-Christians convert? (taking 'appear' in the broadest sense, not necessarily literal vision, since that is uncommon).
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I had a vision of an angel wearing strange underwear and holding a golden tablet which contained two writs of holy wisdom.

    Give the musicians more money
    Thou shalt not Bach nor pray with those who do.

    I say that knowing full well I played one of Bach's organ pieces yesterday.

    Was he a mystic? Who knows, although I lean toward a good Lutheran who wrote music for Lutheran worship.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Bigger question: Does God appear to Non-Catholics?
    Seriously?? Saul of Tarsus, for one. Not sure whether you would count it as an appearance of "God," but many non-Catholics witnessed the Miracle of the Sun.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,416
    He not only appears to non-Catholics, literally or figuratively -
    he gives them talent and grace which glorifies him.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen SarahJ Matilda
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Glad to have that questions resolved.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,416
    Bach's over arching desire was that his music might glorify God (which it does!), in whom he passionately believed. I don't think that as much can be said for quite a few Catholics of our times who compose 'music' for church use. His music, though most of it is not apt for use in Catholic liturgy, far outshines the greater part of anything being written today by Catholics for liturgy, and is certainly apt for didactic, meditative, and inspirational exercises.
    Thanked by 5CHGiffen Schönbergian irishtenor SarahJ Matilda
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jackson:

    This point,
    Bach's over arching desire was that his music might glorify God (which it does!), in whom he passionately believed. I don't think that as much can be said for quite a few Catholics of our times who compose 'music' for church use.


    seems beyond dispute.
    Thanked by 5M. Jackson Osborn irishtenor CHGiffen francis Matilda
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982

    And Bach actually wrote far, far more than the same 10 pieces typically heard at AGO programs.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    one of the all time greatest comps to have ever hit the planet... his ricercar 6 a from his Musical Offering. I scored this for organ if anyone wants to try it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSm9LEYixvA

    another more intimate version

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i6MorFy3YE
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    @francis ... Two sublime, albeit different, performances ... a glimpse of heaven.

    Perhaps more soul-searching than mystic is my favourite Bach aria, from Kantate BWV 21, which I first heard singing in the chorus, then later was oboist in an intimate performance of the aria in Princeton, NJ in 1977:

    https://youtu.be/8nEk6zXSiLo
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Yea, yea, yea (kidding on that point) but who can recommend the choicest choral/vocal sacred music from the works of Georg Philipp Telemann? I am only familiar with instrumental works, but for some reason his sacred music seems to be almost non-existent in US choral repertoire. Quite unlike JS Bach. Or even Schütz.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Telemann's Missa brevis super "Christ lag in Todesbanden" (score at CPDL) is a gem.

    This performance starts at the 2m40s mark, since it's preceded by the chorale:
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    If guilt by association is any virtue, then perhaps I should cite that the Cantate "Siehe, es hat überwunden der Löwe" by Telemann was formerly attributed to J.S. Bach and published as BWV 219.
    Thanked by 3Liam M. Jackson Osborn francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    Charles

    Reminded me of this

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AOoe8K1yj50
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn WGS
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    @francis

    "Es ist vollbracht" ... ganz herrlich ... vielen lieben Dank!
    Thanked by 1francis
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,416
    How refreshing, Francis, how satisfying and refreshing to hear this sung by a boy, as Bach would have heard it. It isn't that modern women do not sing such as this beautifully - it is the built in prejudice that a boy cannot sing such music convincingly, and with force and artistry (or that directors simply don't wish to be bothered to recruit such boyish talent). Few besides Harnoncourt would use boys for such solos - not even the Thomanerchor in their performance of the B-minor mass. Many thanks, Francis, for posting this.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    @chgiffen und mjo

    Bitte schön
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
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