Biggest Frustrations
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What do you ministers see/feel is a big frustration in music ministry?
I feel like getting enough people to help singing consistently is a problem in small parishes like ours. I also feel like training those smaller parishes in best practices and simple basic vocal technique is also lacking.
Anybody have anything to add/comment? Thanks!Thanked by 1CeciliaJulia -
Getting choir members to rehearse.
Not knowing the proper technique to help my choir learn.
Having an inadequate slush fund to cope. -
Having an inadequate booze fund to cope.
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It's frustrating when you work hard to learn something interesting and new but people ignore the effort and seem to prefer the same old pieces.
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Thank you, Stimson, for using the words "slush fund."
I once announced that I was starting a "slush fund" to cover routine organ maintenance, and was told by the pastoral associate, in fairly agitated tones, that the term was redolent of embezzlement.
Which leads to my biggest frustration--- having to communicate effectively with people. Whether that means imparting a vision to a council or choir, recruiting, or defending choices and putting out fires. We all do alright, I am sure, but I always feel as if a communications and psychology background would go a lot farther than musical education in doing the daily work of the job.Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab -
Petty cash is more apt for incidental expenses. Slush fund does have a negative connotation,however, it does sound perfect for covering the expense of frozen margaritas or frozen daiquiris or any other slushy drink.
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"Slush fund" is excellent. Gives off just enough odor to make you.........mysterious.........dashing.........slightly reprehensible.
But you're the church musician, so of course, none of that applies!
Or does it? -
And to think that up to now I had used the phrase primarily as the account managed for the purchasing of alcohol for young pledges in our fraternity. How could that possibly have a negative connotation?
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One frustration I had with one choir I had was keeping on board those who faded away the Sunday after Easter, not staying on until Trinity Sunday or Corpus Christi, after which summer recess began.
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I remember a Disney movie from a novel of the same name a long time ago which might have some applicability to this thread... Pollyanna. The philosophy of the eponymous heroine was to enumerate the positives rather than focus on the negatives of a situation. She felt it is better to find the things about which to laugh (even at oneself) than it is to focus on all the things that might cause you to cry or be sad.
Those for whom Pollyanna's approach is emotional rather than logical, I propose a different exercise. Identify the things that are negatives or that need improvement. Then divide that list into two columns - the one of things that are squarely within your control and the other column for the things over which you have no real control.
Ignore the second column - you have no control over it. Prioritize your remaining list based on importance of the problem and the ease of fixing it. Brainstorm different solutions and action plans for items and start to work on them. If nothing else, this will be an outlet for your inherent creativity. The brainstorming and planning process is cyclical - you'll always be trying new things.
When you have a rough practice or Liturgy, vent at your steering wheel on the way home (or when you have some alone time with the wheel). Steering wheels are very patient. They don't talk back - ever. They don't criticize - ever. They just listen patiently. And after you're finished venting, remind yourself of all the reasons why you are thankful to God for doing what you do and the group you are currently with... and then get back to working your plan.
I don't know that it is helpful to list the frustrations that we have as directors... because our choir members and fellow parishioners likely also have their frustrations with us. But at least if we are going to go down that road of listing them out let's come up with a plan to mitigate those negatives.
Do this - and you won't wind up an old curmudgeon like me. :) -
We have a Whiskey fund for our choir Burns night practice and meal. Bottle of Whiskey is now sitting in my drinks cupboard ready.
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After reading this, I'd say my biggest frustration as a schola member is that we never go out for drinks or dinner!!
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Socials and 'second rehearsal' (being going out for coffee after The Rehearsal) are essential for the bonding that makes a real choir. The most committed choir in my experience was the thirty-or-so voice choir of St Ambrose, Houston, when Msgr di Primeo was pastor. We convened rehearsal promptly at seven for group work, after a while we broke up for sectionals, then reconvened to put things together. Often we would stay after nine, which was the offiical end of rehearsal - we would often work until ten or later to get an anthem (such as Weelkes's 'Alleluia, I Heard a Voice') polished well enough for Sunday. Then we would go out to somewhere for coffee and dessert which at times lasted until mid-night. We had choir parties every few months. Social bonding is essential for the esprit de corps of any choir. It can make all the difference in the quality of music making that any choir aspires to. There is much more to choir than just 'choir'. Many of the frustrations that we experience as choirmasters arise from a lack of bonding, and the lack of a true love of being part of a choir and making sacred music to be presented to God at worship....never go out...
Part of the magic that makes King's King's, or any other English collegiate or cathedral choir what it is is in the fact that the boys live together in musical boarding school (a 'choir school'). They live together, eat together, study together, play together, grow together, and sing together every day. - And they've been doing it since mediaeval times. -
And they've been doing it since mediaeval times.
Gratefully, their not all the same boys who were doing it in mediaeval times. -
Togetherness can be a good thing - or not. I once taught a class that had been together for 8 years in a Catholic school. I quickly learned they had grown to detest each other. I asked one day, "Do you folks even like each other?" I got a resounding no. They complained they had been forced to be together and were looking forward to graduating and dispersing into a bigger school where they hoped to never see each other again. Some choirs are like that, too.
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This issue of recruitment and retention of competent choir singers has gotten to be the worst problem we have to handle with the exception of open hostility and opposition. It seems that there are two major causes and several minor causes and overcoming any of them can be a real challenge.
In general, it is hard to get most people to commit to regular attendance for anything. The pursuit of excellence in insufficient reason to show up and, in some cases, you will have singers who are not really present even when they do attend. Our choirs are aging and that means that retired people with children who live all over the country are gone at the most important feasts of the church year. Even paid singers are difficult to get on a regular basis in some situations. So, how do we get them to commit to some regular attendance plan? Frankly, I don't know any sure-fire program for success in this area.
However, there are a few things that do seem to improve the situation somewhat.
Give announcements and singing schedules at rehearsals and at no other time.
Keep the rehearsal pace brisk and make the work done pertinent to the singing and
very focused.
Make those who do attend aware of your appreciation and enlist their aid in putting
social pressure (gently) on those who are lax.
The more the singers feel that they are part of something special and important the
more they will want to belong. This may require that you sell them on the value of
what they do. The significance of worship cannot be overstated. They need to
recognize that theirs is a high calling.
I am convinced that a failure to give proper attention to worship is one of the
reasons why church attendance is down in general.
The responses given above by others are good and come from a wealth of experience. Just thought I'd add this two cents worth. This is a big challenge and it may do us all good to know that it is universal. -
First, I must comment on CharlesW's remarks about the Catholic school 8th graders. Occasionally a group is like that. More often, I have seen the class learn to accept one another's foibles, etc. much as a large family does. A lot depends on the teachers in the early middle school years. That's where the "Lord of the Flies" behavior crops up, in my experience, if not quashed properly.
On attendance, I belong to a college/community secular choir. The director passes a roster around for signature at each rehearsal which all must sign. For-credit students must sign, of course, but we all sign in. I think it might work in church choir, too. It would be helpful to know who was present when new pieces of music were passed out and introduced. It would also be a subtle way to encourage regular attendance. Some choristers and directors might not like it, but it might be worth a try. -
Priests changing what they want from me or the choir at the last minute.
Priests who want complicated music with a volunteer only choir.
Choir members who talk to me during my postlude despite me saying it breaks my concentration.
When choir members miss dates and directions despite multiple emails/handouts/announcements. -
As a long time choir member and section leader in a wide variety of groups, but never a conductor/director, I share most of these frustrations, and appreciate all the good advice. I try very hard to focus on worshiping God and on gratitude for all of the positive things that really do offset the bad things.
I am resolved to promote my group's going out to lunch after mass at least once a month. We did it in early January and I think it made a difference.
When I look back on all of the best choirs I have sung with, the commonality among them usually consists of two things: (1) a talented director, and (2) a core of people who are completely devoted to that director (or sometimes to the institution, like in a symphony chorus). I see this as a reflection of the fact that we're people and we form relationships. It's also a reflection of the fact that excellence attracts. So while I wouldn't wish to suggest that a cult of personality is a good thing--it absolutely is not, and the danger is always there--it seems to be true that how people relate to the director is, for better or worse, a major factor in church choirs.
I'll have to spend some time cogitating on how to extract practical techniques from these observations--practical as in what we out in the real world, working with amateurs and limited resources and trying to create beautiful music for the glory of God at mass, can use to achieve that goal. Pursuing excellence is obvious but nebulous.
This forum has been a great gift to me in this regard. It is a tremendous resource. Whether we need to vent, or need practical advice, or need philosophical and theological underpinnings to deepen our appreciation and understanding of music and liturgy, this is the place. Y'all are awesome and I'm so glad to have found you. -
Regarding attendance, I note the attendance at each practice and Mass, and give all members the summary of their personal attendance as well as the group attendance overall at the end of the year - and the comparison of how that matches other individual / group attendance with charts. The expectation is 85% attendance. So, someone with 98% attendance might be second overall on individual attendance, someone with 88% attendance might be seventeenth for the year on individual attendance.
Group attendance is a chart that maps attendance for the entire group as a whole over the year... so as a group, perhaps we had 100% attendance over these X number of practices, but only 75% attendance on these other practices... and so on. One of the biggest challenges, IMO, is that choir members tend to look at attendance as an individual issue, not as a an issue that impacts the group as a whole. Charting group attendance isn't primarily about changing that mindset, but at least it underscores that we need to be aware of the group as a whole, not just as individuals who happen to work together for common goals.
In addition to the charts of attendance and the summary (also includes prior year so they can see how it changed from last year), their packet also includes a complete schedule of Masses, workshops, and other special events for the following season and a list of special projects that either I'm working on for the group or that the group will work on together. There is also a personal letter where I try to acknowledge something that pertains to the individual specifically, not just the group. -
Wow! This must be time consuming, but I would like it if I were in your choir, Incardination. That is I would like the feedback, but I also would like to be a member of your choir, I think.
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Carol, just so you know - I'm always recruiting new members!! :)
Seriously - if you ever happen to be passing through Cincinnati with your husband, be sure to stop in and sing with us. We do our best with what we have. -
Despite my half-joke about never going out for drinks/dinner, I could say more specifically that our group suffers the following things:
Attendance: The group at Sunday Mass is consistent (5-7 regulars), barring one person who has occasional travel out of town, and me, who has occasional travel out of town. The 'attendance filter' occurs much earlier, as the director doesn't allow anyone in who doesn't already know how to chant the propers and follow instructions which are usually delivered brusquely. If you make it through that, you are already diligent and committed.
Rehearsals: Regular rehearsals are inconsistent, but make a big difference in quality. However, they require everyone to drive/metro about an hour (we live on all sides of a major city), on a weekday, in the evening after work, so incentive to go is low, and 'I'll study at home and we can run through everything Sunday morning' is high. The latter doesn't give us the solid results of the midweek practice, though.
General cantankerousness:
If the regular priest celebrates we know what to expect, but his enthusiasm for the chant is rather limited. He grudgingly does his obligatory parts. I think he'd rather we sang something else, like vernacular hymns, but the director refuses (reasonably, because if you open that door you can never close it, and chant will steadily lose ground to hymns until you are just like any other parish for miles around, just singing the same repertory of 25 vernacular hymns).
The director tends to pick unusual ordinaries in part to sing something unusual. But also in part because he doesn't want the congregation to sing along with their untrained, out of tune voices, which they would learn to do if he repeated familiar versions more often. This also impacts us having nearly no new people join, which is fine until we lose a few current members to death or disease, at which point there won't be a functioning group anymore.
On the half dozen occasions in three or four years that a few young people (with zero musical education at all) have stopped by to ask how they can learn, they are told to go teach themselves and come back when they know how to sing the propers.
Constant last minute changes: Always happen, always stressful, often the cause of myriad minor errors and confusions. Some changes happen with visiting priests/bishops (visibly stressful for the director, as the decisions are made as the priest is heading from the confessional to the sacristy to vest, which gives us four minutes to reorganize...).
But most last minute changes happen because the director suddenly has a new idea about something or can't find a page or gives the wrong tone, or gets mad at the person who gave a wrong tone, or other minor disorganizations. But this leads to swearing and sweating and cantankerousness, loss of concentration, and missed entrances, so it's kind of stressful on top of stressful.
If I could fix the world: There'd be ongoing/regular 'learn about chant' classes/workshops to help the congregation learn to sing a variety of ordinaries and hymns, and to recruit from; we'd all (priest, congregation, choir, choir director, organist) be One Body, One Spirit, collaborating in beautiful worship; there'd be relaxed rehearsals which could include time for discussing the liturgy, history of the chant, Latin, and other details that enrich the experience (and very little time spent talking about politics or the latest scandals). And we'd all pray together and help each other out, rather than trying to just get the job done and get home, as if we'd stopped in to fix the plumbing.
Gratitude: really, really grateful to have the opportunity, even with all its difficulties.
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When choir members miss dates and directions despite multiple emails/handouts/announcements.
During the period from 1974-1985 I was the choir director/organist for a rapidly-growing, relatively wealthy suburban parish. The choir--which I inherited--had about 25 members, a couple of which (sopranos) were very good voices; the rest were basic 'church choir' people.
There was no "email," nor handouts, and there were few announcements other than reminders about unusual events: the Christmas and Holy Week schedules, Confirmations...
Everybody showed up every week with very few exceptions despite the fact that there were some members who traveled for a living (and mentioned in advance that they would not be present on days X, Y, and Z.
Later, I was the choir director for the EF Mass in town. Less prosperous group of singers, only one "franchise" (soprano) voice, and all came from >5 miles distance for rehearsal and Mass. We DID have email and used it--occasionally. Everybody showed up, every week, and just as with the prior group, there were a few absences with advance notice given.
Apparently things have changed. Sad. -
I would like to add to my previous note about a phenomenon that seems to be present in many places. Quite a few years ago I had worked with several church groups where these problems were not present to any great extent. However, more recently (over the last twenty years or so) I have noticed that people seem to be much more willing to allow other people to hurt them and offer not resistance or protest. I refer to the choir members who don't care if their fellow members show up for rehearsal and then arrive for worship on Sunday to trample on the preparations they have made. It used to be that the folks who showed regularly didn't like that to happen and would say so.
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My biggest frustration is that my children, whom I have trained to be solid singers grow up and move away.
I don't have enough men in my choir, but the ones I do have are solid or give good gifts.
I'm blessed. For some reason my attendance is actually quite good. The choir members know just enough about one another, but not too much. They are acquaintances, but not great friends. -
My son and my daughter in law sang with us on Christmas Eve and it was such a treat! Musically, they added so much and as a mother it is a great blessing to see your offspring participating in Mass the way you hoped they would. I like your sentence about choir members knowing "just enough" about one another!
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My biggest frustration is lack of literacy, and little time to train it. My people follow in chant very well, but if I stop singing, cacophony is virtually guaranteed within a dozen notes.
And not letting me know if they will show up, or showing up late.
But I don't have much to complain about. Sunday was the patronal feast, and we got hit with a blizzard the night before. None of my 3 women showed, but most did let me know. Four men braved the icy roads, 2 only got there after the warmup rehearsal. But it was more than enough. -
I'm in a pretty good spot, both teaching and serving as a music director. Both places are great...
But I'm not a full-time employee at either, so I have to pay for my own benefits and don't make a significant amount of money (enough for me, but not enough if I one day had a family).
I can afford my own insurance and kick in a little to an IRA. But the only reason I'm financially stable is because I saved a lot of money when I worked in corporate America and thus can take a hit if either of those jobs goes away. -
My people follow in chant very well, but if I stop singing, cacophony is virtually guaranteed within a dozen notes.
This drives me mad, and is really normal in every group I've sung in. There are one or two people who have prepared and really know the material, and everyone else just 'follows'. Following is (expletive). It is not singing. It is a kind of weird useless background murmur. Besides being constantly 1/16 or 1/32 note behind those who have prepared, which is really distracting. I want to sing with colleagues, not mumbling wallflowers!!
(to add: However, it is in the 'things I can't fix' category...so whatever.)
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>> There are one or two people who have prepared and really know the material, and everyone else just 'follows'.
there - there's my biggest frustration.
Indeed, 'following' is not singing - and since chant is prayer, - well I'm not going to complete that sentence. Thanks CatherineS for your post. -
vent at your steering wheel on the way home (or when you have some alone time with the wheel).
Cardy, you always struck me as one of the most composed conductors I've worked with. Now having this mental image - it boggles my mind. I'm imagining a sample of one of your car rides home:
*BANG*"Curse them . . . curse them all for relinquishing the Pink Tutu in their music-making. *BANG* Have the fools no concept whatever of what entails artistic finesse? *BANG BANG* They shall rue it. THEY SHALL RUE THE DAAAAAAAAAAY THEY MOCKED INCARDINATION!!!" *BANG BANG* HONK
(And yes, folks, if you get the chance, sing with Incardination sometime. He's an amazing director. And his wife is a culinary genius.) -
My people follow in chant very well, but if I stop singing, cacophony is virtually guaranteed within a dozen notes.
At least all of you get some sort of sound. In too many choirs I've directed, I'm stopped to take a stagger breath, and the singers glare at me in abject terror, no idea as to what note comes next. I have to remind them - if I'm stopping, I'll either give them a direction to stop or say "Stop". -
1) The people;
2) The clergy;
3) The choir. -
I'm imagining a sample of one of your car rides home:
As always, Stimson, I am so impressed with your apt visualizations!! :) ... rue the daaaay... LOL! -
I was once asked, after I visited a parish, if there were any things I would change about the music. I replied that I liked most of it, but I would change the Ordinaries and all the hymns.
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I'm stopped to take a stagger breath, and the singers glare at me in abject terror,
My singers are so much better than that. I'll breathe in an odd place, so that we can stagger breaths, and they'll breathe with me just because I did it. -
Knowing what a good space for sacred music sounds like and not having one.
jefe -
Also knowing what a fine choir such as that at Christ Church Cathedral sounds like and not having one at the Catholic cathedral - nor having the liturgy to go with it!...sounds like...Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
Being called a minister... haha
I don’t really suffer frustrations from church music now. Of course I have my moments.
I dunno, my current frustration is probably just not being able to meet the demand for church music.
So many churches here desire good music, and I play at a lot of them but I cannot play and conduct for all and contribute to my full time job. If I could snap my fingers to be at the next location then I could actually train up people to run things themselves. If the churches paid enough to live by then I could afford to travel to their various locations as they called me.
I guess I could provide an inventory of pet peeves I used to suffer from. These days I feel too much joy in my work to be frustrated, I work for so many loving and beautiful churches with so many fantastic and life saving, soul saving priests. Ah but reminiscing in the negativity is fun aye?
So here goes...
Laptop ministry...
Projector screens...
The burning of old hymnals...
Paddle pop stick pedalboards on glorified toasters...
A dilapidated real pipe organ that has never been repaired...
An unreliable prima donna singer that pulls out last minute...
Breathing in toxic bird poo because the loft is filthy...
Entire laymen choirs who decide to plonk themselves in front of the blessed sacrament so they can be a centre stage distraction whilst they fluff around and fiddle with copes...
Disregard for chant...
Clergy who believe you can put together a massive polyphonic mass with an amateur choir with less than 5 hours notice...
The congregant with a hearing condition complaining that the organ is too loud...
The congregant that hangs around at the door of the loft to ask you out after mass like a total creep...
When you don’t have a choir rehearsal til 10 minutes before midnight mass at Christmas and have to rely on beginner children to wing the entire carols service and liturgy because their mother wanted them to get plenty of sleep instead of rehearse...
When you have an accompaniment edition of a hymnal thrown at the back of your head at the start of mass and proceed to bleed all over the organ for the entire liturgy...
When you turn up to play for the wedding and the wedding organizer won’t let you at the organ because they were expecting an 80 year old man to play the organ...
The amateur cantor that gets inspired by Pavarotti over the weekend and attempts to emulate with untrained voice...
Secular people handing out yoga pamphlets to your choir during the Gospel...
Secular people on their phones during consecration...
Choristers who criticize the priest...
Other music directors who have no training getting paid to do what you did the training and time to do well purely because they knew which man to bonk or because they are a man or both...
Music directors that complain about their choirs when their choirs love them and their choirs are great...
People who say they have sung intricate polyphonic works before but clearly haven’t ever sung before...
When the priest says, can you throw a modern one in for the kiddies?...
When you hear of church musicians who abused their role and abused members of their choir...
Choristers who refuse to sing anything but the top line when they would make a beautiful part singer...
That singer at the priests lectern waving her arms about like a seal trying to cool down...
When a huntsman spider crawls across the organ keys during your prelude before mass...
When a possum runs over all the tuning pegs of the reeds on Easter Day...
That moment the microphone is placed in front of your mouth whilst you play the organ and realize you’re now also the cantor...
People that invoice triple the money they quoted...
Media that destroy a good priests career...
The various spellings of paurkooolbells canon...
When you type Sicut Cervus and it autocorrects to secure cervix and you don’t read the message before sending that to the priest...
Unfortunate autocorrects for Panis Angelicus...
One chorister turns the bulletin into a Japanese fan... then all of them suddenly have one... and they are all furiously fanning themselves...
When scaffolding prevents you from sitting at the organ...
Being handed a choir robe that makes you look like you're a bird who swallowed a plate...
When a smoke detector is installed in the sanctuary and your server friends crack open the incense setting spraying water and alarms going off just after you've started to conduct a very long polyphonic Gloria...
The noise of congregants competitively coughing during the homily...
A power cut during the penultimate chord of the recessional hymn...
That creepy man that attempts to give your shoulders a massage whilst you're trying to play Widor or Mendelssohn postlude...
Conducting a choir in extreme heat after the fourth stinking hot mass for the day...
When you cannot say the composers name but his piece is amazing...
When your tiny treble sings at the correct time and the rest of the sopranos scold him even though they were the ones that were wrong... go Johnny!
The server that comes up to tell you Fr. would like to know which creed and mass setting; after you put it in writing, temporary tattooed it on his hand in pen, put it on the congregation notice board, typed it in the bulletin and wrote in tomato sauce on his dinner the previous night...
You’re wearing slippery stockings or skirt and the organ bench is sloped...
You’re a hobbit and previous organist adjusted the organ bench to their own elven proportions...
You get a footy song request at a funeral...
A young child pulling your hair when you’re trying to play "Christians let us love one another"...
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That sounds like the makings for a great book!Thanked by 1Jes
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@CHGiffenG.O.A.T. award
Giffen Overly Amused Today award?
Thank you for appreciating my comment.
This mild adversity in my short life is but .00001% of what is the best job ever... making music for God! We must CHUCKle and remember what we do is pretty much the dream we had when we first imagined ourselves doing church music and possibly has over stepped where we expected we would go. I never personally imagined I'd be doing what I'm doing today and I'm very grateful for every moment I get doing this cos I love what I do. -
It's become a common acronym here in the colonies: G(reatest) O(f) A(ll) T(ime).
Anyway, your version is indeed amusing! Thank you so much!! -
Great Old Australian Tsomethingorother (the T is silent)?Thanked by 1Jes
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