Mass in Spanish - Source of the Lectionary?
  • laurenmarch
    Posts: 3
    Hello All,

    I am currently working with my accompanist in compiling a book of entrance and communion antiphons and VERSES in Spanish, for use during Mass. I would like to use psalm verses to go with each antiphon, however, I'm struggling to find the approved translation of the psalms for use in Mass in Spanish in the United States. For example, the New American Bible is the approved translation for Mass in English. Do any of you know what the approved biblical translation for Masses in Spanish are in the United States? And if so, where can I get a copy?

    Thanks in advance for your help!

    Lauren
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  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    Hi Lauren,

    I have sent a message to a contact at the USCCB to ask that question. I hope that I'll get a quick answer for you.
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  • mattebery
    Posts: 14
    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/16559/palabra-y-eucaristia-hardcover-englishspanish-lectionary-book-with-new-usccb-translations
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  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    I fixed the link.

    As a tip, if you post a URL in your comment, the system will automatically make it a hyperlink: no action required.

    The link button that appears during comment entry is for making regular text into a hyperlink. If you're comfortable editing HTML tags, you can make that work.
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  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    Looking at the link to the misal, I'm guessing that it still wouldn't provide the needed psalm verses for use on Introit and Communion propers, since they wouldn't be part of the typical missal text.

    @mattebery: Do you have a copy of this book already?
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,032
    The readings and psalms in the lectionary in Spanish for the US come from two different sources - the readings are from the lectionary published by the bishops of Mexico (latest edition 1993), the psalms from the lectionary published by the bishops of Spain in 1970.

    The psalms - from which most of the verses of the propers are taken - appear to be taken from the Nueva Biblia Española (with some modifications - or perhaps from a later edition).

    The responsorial psalms on the daily readings section of the USCCB website are evidently also from the Mexican lectionary, and so (as far as I can tell) are not currently approved for use at mass in the US.
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  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    @rich_enough, you are correct about the readings and the psalms in the US leccionario being from two sources, Mexico and Spain, respectively. A quick perusal of the sample pages of ILP's Palabra y Eucaristía has me wondering if the ILP made a mistake since the readings and the psalms are both from Mexico's translation.

    When I was working on the responsorial psalms contained in GIA's Oramos Cantando/We Pray in Song hymnal about 8 years ago, I was assured by the BCDW that the psalm translation from Spain would continue to be used in the "forthcoming" revised Leccionario the BCDW was then preparing. Now, after seeing the ILP samples, I'm wondering if something has changed.
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  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,032
    Good question.

    As you're probably aware, the bishops of Spain recently revised the translation of the psalms in their lectionary, leaving the US bishops' plans to use this version in their lectionary in limbo (according to this report). Responde y Aclama (OCP) currently uses the (old) translation from Spain and it continues to carry full episcopal approval, so evidently this version is still OK.

    There is no lectionary which incorporates the two sources in a single book, so I imagine that most places where the resp. psalms are spoken simply use the Mexican translation in the lectionary they have (even though technically it's not approved), which would match what's in the ILP book.
  • mattebery
    Posts: 14
    @janetgorbitz - yes and it has the text for the Readings, Psalm refrains, verses, antiphons,etc for Sundays, Feasts, and Solemnities. I'm sorry; I thought that's what you were looking for...
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    I received a very cordial reply:

    Good morning, Ms. Gorbitz,


    Fr. Menke is out of the office this week and has asked me to answer your question on his behalf.


    There is not an approved Lectionary for the USA, and USCCB is using the Mexican Lectionary when posting daily readings. The Mexican Bishops´ Conference, however, does not use a published translation of the Bible, but rather the texts needed were directly translated from the Latin, so there is no complete Bible text where they can be found. You can borrow from that Lectionary.


    USCCB also uses the Psaltery from Spain for the Responsorial Psalm, though in the Misal Romano, tercera edición, the entrance and after Communion antiphons are taken from the Mexican translation. But we think you could use the Psalms from Spain from La Sagrada Biblia, Conferencia Episcopal Española, Madrid.


    We hope this is helpful.


    God bless your efforts to provide this important resource for the Hispanic community,


    Peace,


    Carmen F. Aguinaco

    Multicultural Specialist

    USCCB, Secretariat for Divine Worship
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  • laurenmarch
    Posts: 3
    Wow! Thank you all so very much! Great information. Complicated, as I expected, but this will get me moving in the right direction!

    Thanks again for your help!

    Lauren
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    I'm not familiar enough with Spanish to know for sure; I believe this website has the Mexican translation. It's useful when needing to add psalm verses to an impromptu antiphon. Not sure if it is the approved translation.

    http://www.vicariadepastoral.org.mx/sagrada_escritura/biblia/antiguo_testamento/39_salmos_01.htm#sal1
  • GerardoCallejas
    Posts: 15
    Hi Lauren

    I was wondering where you are at with the project that you had been working on that caused you to ask where you can find the verses in Spanish for antiphons. I’m currently working with my choir director to see where we could go with the antiphons that Janet Gorbitz has begun work on. We’re hoping to developing a format similar to that of Simple English Propers. Does anyone know where I can find the verses in text for Introit, Offertory, and communion antiphons?
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 279
    There is now a USA Missal in Spanish- they are all there.
    https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1412
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  • GerardoCallejas
    Posts: 15
    Do you know how the verses of the antiphons are set up?
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    Do you have access to the Antiphonary of the Roman Missal (2010)?
  • GerardoCallejas
    Posts: 15
    The verses don’t match up to the verses of simple English propers. They are the same book from the Bible but the verses used are different.
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    You need to exercise great care in moving between Spanish psalters and English psalters. The former follow the Septuagint numbering and the latter, the Hebrew numbering.
    09 McK Numbering 28.pdf
    21K
    09 McK Numbering 28.DOC
    26K
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  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    The verses don’t match up to the verses of simple English propers


    The verses of which book? The Antiphonary of the Roman Missal (2010)?
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 279
    In general Ive noticed the verses in spanish dont match english nor do they match in Italian (when I was living there) this applies to antiphons as well as responsorial psalms. Sometimes they do but most of the time they do not match but might have more or less the same sense. In the missal the verses are excluded. I think if you contacted the USCCB they might be able to lead you in the right direction as far as sources go.
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  • GerardoCallejas
    Posts: 15
    Paul

    The antiphonary of the Roman missal 2010 does not match the text that is used in simple English propers.
    The antiphonary has the antiphon but just the beginning phrase, no verses that accompany the beginning phrase like how it is in simple English propers. So I am wondering why that is(only the beginning phrase of the antiphon in the antiphonary with no verses). In other words where I can find the actually text that’s been used for the antiphons in simple English propers so that way I can relate them to the Spanish antiphons of Janet Gorbitz.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    These are all describing the same thing. They are using different psalm numbering systems, and different translations of the same Latin text.
    The antiphonary :-
    ADVENT
    FIRST SUNDAY OF ADVENT
    Entrance Antiphon Cf. Ps 24: 1-3
    To you, I lift up my soul, O my God.
    In you, I have trusted; let me not be put to shame.
    Nor let my enemies exult over me;
    and let none who hope in you be put to shame.
    (Psalm 24[25]: GR, p. 15)
    That last line means 'further verses from the psalm'

    https://media.churchmusicassociation.org/books/sep/001_SEP_1-Advent.pdf
    says:-
    Introit ad te levavi Ps 25(24):1-3 Unto you have I lifted ...
    and then Ps 25(24) O Lord make me ...

    https://spanishpropers.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/a-ti-senor-i.pdf
    Cfr Sal 25 1-4 A ti, Señor levanto ...
    and then gives one verse:- Haz, Señor, ...
    Thanked by 2GerardoCallejas Paul F. Ford
  • GerardoCallejas
    Posts: 15
    Yes I see that now thank you. Further more, what is the Bible approved by the USCCB in Spanish?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    Be aware of a further complication for the psalms and antiphons. Translations of the Psalter are permitted that are not the same as the Bible/s used for the Lectionary. Furthermore the antiphons in the Graduale Romanum were not taken from either the current Nova Vulgata or the previous approved edition of the Vulgata but are translations into Latin in use before St Jerome produced his versions over 1600 years ago.
    Thanked by 3Paul F. Ford GerardoCallejas tomjaw
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    The book "Simple English Propers" has psalm verses from the Revised Grail Psalter produced by Conception Abbey. Since then the RGP has been bought by the USCCB, and with some adjustments, renamed as the Abbey Psalter.

    The USCCB has approved a Spanish-language Missal and Lectoonary, but an entire Bible would be a separate matter.
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