Method for Singing Alleluia?
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Can something explain the particular liturgical relevance of the "Method of Sing the Alleluia According to the Eight Tones" listed in the Liber Usualis beginning page 95? When would these be used, exactly?
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    There are times where Propers don't include the Alleluia that would be used if it occurred during PT. Page 95 and following is the reference by mode, by Proper for incorporating the Alleluia at the end of the other text in those situations...

    So, if you had a mode 1 Introit which was being done during PT and which wasn't written with the Alleluia before the verse, you would reference the very first Alleluia on pg. 95. Similarly on the following pages for Offertory and Communion verses at the end of the text in each case.
    Thanked by 5MarkB StimsonInRehab CCooze tomjaw mmeladirectress
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    To conform with the missal rubric to add 'alleluia, alleluia' or 'alleluia' to antiphons during paschal-time, in the Vatican Gradual they give options that will fit any antiphon.

    Since the correct one is usually printed right after the antiphon ('T.P. Alleluia...'), the appendix is not very useful in the Liber, though I think it would be needed to sing a paschal-time votive Mass with chants from the Proper of Saints (which usually includes 'T.P. Alleluia' only on feasts in April, May and June).
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Exactly as others have said. See, for example, the Nuptial Mass, 1291. The Offertory reference says "1035 (T. P. Alleluia, p. 96)." Similarly for the feast of the Annunciation, 1416, which was transferred to Monday after the octave of Easter this year: "356 (P. T. Alleluia. First tone, p. 96)." Why the abbreviation is T. P. in one place and P. T. in another in the English edition is anyone's guess.
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  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Tempus Pachale or Paschal Time
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Clearly, but why a Latin abbreviation in one place and English in another in a book with English rubrics?
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @madorganist

    You assume these books are without error... e.g. pg. 1260 in L.U. there are at least another 10 examples (the 1949 Antiphonale has far more)

    Anyway I think the reason of having the Latin abbreviation when the rest of the rubrics are in English is that it would have been far more work to change every engraved plate with T.P. Swapping the Latin Rubrics with French on English would just mean swapping one block for another.

    In the days before word processors printing was so much more involved...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterpress_printing
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  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    @tomjaw, you bring up something I've often wondered about: Did Desclée publish editions of the Liber with French rubrics, or only Latin and English? I have seen other books with French, but not the Liber itself. What about Italian, German, Spanish, other?
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    I've seen the Liber with French as well as Latin and English, not any other language (but that clearly doesn't mean that they don't exist).
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  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 390
    The Liber with French rubrics was published with the title "Paroissien Romain". I own a 1935 edition.
    Thanked by 2madorganist tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    I have copies in Latin, English and French... As mentioned above the French version has a different name. This excellent site tries to keep a complete list of books,
    http://www.gregorianbooks.com/gregorian_books.html

    and look here is a Version of Mass and Vespers in German,
    http://www.gregorianbooks.com/gregorian_books.html#kat_pfarr_1958
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    As others have noted, Alleluias are provided for TP votive Masses where the alleluias aren't already written out. Every year, I'm struck by how the Roman rite insists on adding Alleluia to nearly everything in the Easter season.

    In that spirit, this past Easter season, I appended Alleluias from the Liber to standard chants the schola uses as motets, such as Ave Maria and Ave Verum Corpus.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    We all love to sing 'alleluya' once Eastertide comes around. How many observe with sadness the 'burying of alleluya' (yes, its actually buried in a little coffin and dug up on Easter Day) and singing lots of alleluyas on the Sunday next before Ash Wednesday. And, don't forget that wonderful 'goodbye to alleluya' hymn, Alleluia Dulce Carmen, or its English version, 'Alleluya, Song of Gladness', sung to the gladsome tune, Dulce Carmen, at no. 54 in The Hymnal 1940.
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  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Even sadder for me is the last Regina caeli on Ember Saturday after Pentecost. We only lose the alleluia for nine weeks, but it's another 45 or so until we sing the Regina caeli again.
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn Richard Mix CHGiffen eft94530
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Alas! Equally sad (no, sadder) is that most people don't even know that Regina caeli exists. The default antiphon for most Catholics is Salve regina. The others simply don't exist in most Catholics' minds. To my mind Salve regina, unlike Alma redemptoris mater, Ave regina caeli, and Regina caeli laetare, is depressing and maudlin. The others are quite fine and healthy.
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  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    Hmmm.. my boys and girls choirs can sing all 4 of the antiphons. Their favorite is Ave Regina caelorum. They get tired of Salve Regina.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 390
    They get tired of the traditional, elaborate Salve Regina?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    No, the simple one. We are learning the solemn form right now. Hoping that will help.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We get to sing the Marian Antiphon after every sung Mass, it is a local custom in England. On Feasts we sing the Solemn form, so most of our congregation is familiar with all versions.
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  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 390
    @kevinf If not, you can always continue adding the versions of various religious orders to confuse them by the little and not-so-little differences (if I remember correctly, Premonstratensians even have their own early modern tonus simplex) and the tonus simplex from the 19th c. Pustet editions.

    @tomjaw Wow. In Czech Republic, too, there are numerous parishes singing a Marian antiphon after every Mass, but I have never heard the solemn form - not even in a cathedral following Vespers chanted by a semi-professional choir.
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    Simple, Solemn, Monastic, Solemn with drone(s)...

    We just started the monastic and another version by Soriano this season.
    Salve Regina.pdf
    585K
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    In my private prayer on Sundays outside of Lent and Advent/Christmastide and from August 15th-22nd, I pray the Regina Caeli instead of my daily Angelus. Because I can. (And, throughout Christmastide and on the feast of the Annunciation, my third versicle for the Angelus is all of John 1:14)
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Some of the younger guys always want to do the solemn with drone because "it sounds cool." Not sure how much historical precedent there really is for it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4-c3bwsgs
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    How many observe with sadness the 'burying of alleluya' (yes, its actually buried in a little coffin and dug up on Easter Day)


    This is an annual occurrence at my house amongst choir friends. Saturday before Septuagesima I invite friends over. A carpenter friend made a wooden figurine with a coffin. We sing the Dulce Carmen, we nail the coffin shut, candlelit procession to the grave, followed by a eulogy given by the first guest to arrive that evening. A wake follows. Everyone who shows up signs a condolence card.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Viola
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    In the days before word processors printing was so much more involved...


    Yes, but you had monk-labor, which was almost free!

    Now, with word processing, you need to call in $175.00/hour IT gurus who leave pizza stains all over the desk and often wear beanies with rotor-tops. And they don't use napkins.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    >> Did Desclée publish editions of the Liber with French rubrics, or only Latin and English? I have seen other books with French, but not the Liber itself. What about Italian, German, Spanish, other?

    Somewhere around here I have one in German.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,085
    @ Incardination, I'm very interested in how to interpret the tone with the drone notes in the sheet music you posted. I can tell the drone notes are the open-squares, but the pitches don't sound the same as in this version:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPOv_BJcDeI

    Can anyone help me with what pitches are actually sung? How to interpret the score? When two open-squares are positioned together on the staff does that signify two different pitches or movement of the drone notes on the same syllable? The up/down arrows in the text seem to be instructions for the drone notes, and it seems to me that the drone notes should be sung below the pitches indicated by the open-square notes.

    Thanks.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Paul F. Ford
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    Certainly! You are quite correct, the version I posted is different from the YouTube link. It was arranged by our very talented NihilNominis on this forum. The way I have my group sing it... the ladies sing the melody. Tenors are on the upper open note; the basses on the lower open note with a pre-defined syllable for the drone for both voices. The arrows indicate the movement for both tenor and bass. The braces indicate that the melody is sung in the parallel 5th (5th above for the tenor and basses on melody in their range for the 1st brace; 5th below for the basses and tenors on the melody for the 2nd and 3rd braces). Does this help?
    Thanked by 2MarkB CHGiffen
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,085
    Yes, that clarifies things for me. Thank you.
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