As a Church Musician - What's Your NeoJungian Myers-Briggs Typology?
  • Drake
    Posts: 221
    MJO, here is a brief overview of the 8 available letters and the four categories: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/info.html
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Jackson,

    I'll fill you in partially.

    The first letter is either I (for Introvert) or E (for Extrovert) and is supposed to describe the situations under which a person charges or recharges his battery. As extreme examples to illustrate a point, a person who is strongly "I", would like nothing more than an SIP which required him to interact with no one except in absolute necessity. An "E" person finds a silent retreat or a visit to a Trappist Monastery some kind of exquisite torture.

    The 3rd Letter, T or F, is supposed to describe one's primary mode of evaluating situations. T stands for "thinking", which is supposed to mean analytical processing, not ruminating if I recall correctly, and F is for "feeling" -- an emotional rather than analytical approach to processing.

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    The other two are

    the second letter: S or N, depending on whether one relies more in perceiving on sense observations or by "intuition" (grasping the whole of a thing/situation);

    the fourth letter: J or P, depending on which is more predominant: the "judging" faculty (indicated by the third letter) or the "perceiving" faculty (indicated by the second letter)
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • francis
    Posts: 10,850
    after CHG, also graduated to the ultimate OC category... suspect about much, coming to realize i know less and less, and willing to tell it exactly how i see it
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    The nuance that I've heard is that J's extrovert their main judging faculty, and P's extrovert their main perceiving faculty. Meaning that if you are an introvert, the J or P faculty that you extrovert is your 2nd best one. I think I am saying it right...
  • I didn't know "extrovert" and "introvert" were verbs. I've always used them as adjectives or nouns.

    Is this part of the challenge of Meyers-Briggs? Or, is this not an M-B problem, but a problem more widely spread. We are no more "willing", but "open". Something isn't "my fault", but "my bad"? Other examples abound, and I don't want to drag this thread off topic, but if employers use this kind of test as a pre-employment suitability filter, what would parish musicians need to be?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    It wouldn't be a good idea to use this for pre-employment screening of any sort, since, if I understand right, the scientific value of the classification isn't accepted as part of mainstream psychology practice. But it might be useful for understanding one's own way of thinking, and for understanding others' differing approaches, which could well be helpful in collaborating with others.

    Here's a piece about the subject: https://blog.criteriacorp.com/4-reasons-you-should-never-use-the-myers-briggs-test-for-hiring/

    And here, incidentally, is an overview of the test, from its source: https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/home.htm?bhcp=1
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,167
    I'm INTP. Every time I take the Myers-Briggs test.
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    I took it came out LIAR. It didn't really capture me so I guess I am a LIAR and not in tune with myself.
  • Carol,

    As a musician, you'd be a LYRE, not a LIAR, right?
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • Dear Ken of Sarum,
    ENFP.
    Best,
    Fr. Drew
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I'm not up on matters Jungian.

    Neither am I. Though I'm sure that my choleric disposition is due to an overabundance of yellow bile. Unfortunately, the Barber-Surgeon is not considered an essential service.
    Thanked by 1PolskaPiano
  • Chonak,

    I don't think it would be appropriate to use this as a pre-employment screen either, but why else might one inquire as to ones typology on this test among church musicians?

    I can imagine a parish liturgy committee getting Father's ear and asking him to secure a person of [ ] type for the position.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    CGZ wrote:
    why else might one inquire as to ones typology on this test among church musicians?

    Can't you imagine reasons for bringing it up apart from pre-employment screening?
  • Could it be a pick up line in a bar (once the SIP has been lifted)?
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    See? There are other possibilities.

    I don't think this thread got started because of pre-employment screening; Ken started it, and I assume he plays in his ecumenical-monastic-type community rather than in a conventional church job.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    Chonak - you are so correct about my interest in it and you are so right in that it is not considered a valid or totally reliable means of evaluation. I simply find it very interesting since it has been, like much I read, food for thought and reflection. I have taken all those quirky test and personality puzzles and I always come out very introverted, meditative and highly / extremely empathic, but to meet me, you'd never guess it - LOL. As a side note, I find Carl Jung interesting and strange since he was supposedly an INFJ like myself. Yet, officially by supposed non-religious shrinks, I'm thought of as a Christian mystic similar to St. John of the Cross, while Jung seems to me to be almost agnostic. One thing I have noticed in my humble way, is that to me empaths seem to be more musical and artistically sensitive.

    ps - We don't have an organ or keyboard. All singing is done unaccompanied and we only use plainsong chant; especially our rosary recitations.
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    INFP.

    Also, are the Meyers-Briggs and Enneagram just astrology for the mythology of psychology?
  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 162
    ESFJ. Pegged me correctly!
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    INFJ every time, both in long-form proctored questionnaires and quickie online ones.
    I is for Introverted; E is for Extroverted
    N is for Intuitive; S is for Sensing
    F is for Feeling; T is for Thinking
    J is for Judging; P is for Perceiving
    ...and of course these terms all have specific definitions in the Myers-Briggs universe.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,117
    Typologies of this sort are not intended to convey a static "type", despite their common usage for that very purpose, but *default tendencies* that people manifest under certain conditions, but that they likely have also developed the opposite tendency under different conditions (sometimes so strongly that other people may not realize the default tendency much if at all). And they can modulate over periods of time. (I have tested consistently over decades, but I also realize that other people don't typically see me as having those default tendencies but the auxiliary opposite.)
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    Most of the value of these analysis systems lies in helping the individuals understanding of the tensions within them. Just in order to get by in the world, I learnt as a child to simulate an interest in other people. I have even on occasion been thanked for my 'sympathetic ear'.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,117
    In the corporate context, they are classically used in team exercises to identify where a team may be overrepresented and underrepresented in skills sets.

    I remember an early Y2K team exercise 25 years ago this year, where 14 teams from the company were cobbled together in a variety of task groups. All but one of teams was overweighted in extroversion, only one was dominated by introversion.

    That one team: the phone reps group, who had to front face to the public (front trench, as it were). The stress brought out their introversion in reaction - members needed more time by themselves to reenergize, as it were.

    America largely rewards extroversion.

    BUT

    The Catholic church's leadership grooming rewards introversion (there's an ancient Roman distrust of combining charisma and power without lots of checks, going back to the late Republic, and it was transfused into the Church's institutional blood type - there are exceptions for charismatic money raisers, and after time passes those exceptions often have the effect of reinforcing the distrust) and passive aggressive approaches to dealing with conflict.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • jcr
    Posts: 141
    INTJ Interesting, because some years ago I took this and the result was the same, I believe.

    In the DMin program I was in there was a student who was relating this test to styles or modes of prayer among the other candidates. Somewhere I have a copy of her results. I'll look for it and see if there is any relatable material (size wise) in it. I'm not sure what any of this means in one sense. In another, it does seem that it identifies some of our personality traits. Motivator for change or just a way to dig in our heels and ...?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    The book "Prayer and Temperament" by Michael and Norrisey relates the four classic temperaments to elements of Catholic spiritual tradition: for example, to the four gospels, and to the prayer approaches of various saints and religious-order traditions.
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    Chonak - I find that very very interesting in getting to understand and know the inner workings, motivations and mind sets of the saints. I am specifically interested in those saints that are either / or mystics and had regular visions and dreams that later came true.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    The angle of the book was to relate the four classic temperaments (choleric, sanguine, phlegmatic, melancholic) to these spiritual characteristics. If I remember, one of the types was compared to Franciscan spirituality, another to St. Augustine, another to St Ignatius, and I forget the fourth -- maybe the Dominican tradition. It wasn't much about the biographies of those saints, but of the characteristics of their prayers and the meditative or imaginative approaches they respectively pursued. The purpose of it all, of course, was to give readers ideas about how to find material for their own prayer lives in those various parts of the Catholic inheritance.

    Incidentally, the authors did not place the Carmelite and Benedictine traditions within their schema, perhaps on the grounds that they were both too broad to fit in any one category.