Harry and Meghan
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 393
    Any thoughts on the royal wedding music today?
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    I am curious to hear all your opinions on this as choir/music directors. Some of the music was exquisite, in my relatively untrained opinion. What a wide range of styles!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I looked at the pdf listing of the music and it all looks lovely. I didn't watch or listen to the ceremony.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    There's been a measure of criticism directed at the gospel selections, the Rutter blessing, and the multicultural aspects of it over on FB. I can't concur with such sentiment as I believe it untenable for RC's to insist upon traditionalism towards their denomination, and out of courtesy and mutual respect. I thought the Tallis was impeccable, the hymn-singing superb (Harry's no shrinking violet when singing hymns), the Rutter rendition moving, the gospel choir blended and not oversung, the organist's work stellar, the orchestra and brass fairly flawless and the young cellist absolutely spell binding. In many ways I found this plurality more edifying than some of the stultifying divisiveness rampant in our own American culture.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    My family lost interest in royal weddings somewhere around 1776. A good year that was.
  • stulte
    Posts: 355
    The music, regardless of what one thinks of the choice of repertoire, was well performed from the bits I listened to. Not all of it was appropriate for church, even an Anglican one (which had been Catholic in happier times). The mashup of styles was jarring.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,075

    .
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I take it you don't live in the southeastern U.S. Such mixes of the good, the bad, and the ugly are common. I have learned to appreciate the good, and ignore the bad and ugly.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Carol
  • Everything in the service folder was exemplary - except the 'kingdom choir'... what on earth were they doing there! That such an not-holy lyric was sung on this occasion in this place should be unbelievable - nay, unthinkable.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    I'd take them over Elton John, hands down.
  • stulte
    Posts: 355
    I take it you don't live in the southeastern U.S. Such mixes of the good, the bad, and the ugly are common. I have learned to appreciate the good, and ignore the bad and ugly.


    No, I don't. Not to say that such mixes aren't common in other places.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Jackson, I submit that, to the deciders, the "Stand by me" text was allusion, not literal. This praticca is surely not unusual in particular Anglican, Episcopal and even Catholic (say it isn't so!) experience. It happens.
    Thanked by 1MarkS
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I thought it interesting that the Cellist played Ave Maria.

    Also, We should have done a shot game on how many times the media mentioned that Megan was bi-racial. I would be completed wasted right now.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    I have learned to appreciate the good, and ignore the bad and ugly.


    We know which one Eastwood was. Who are the other two?
  • Here’s the video of it.

    For a low-church Protestant service, it was excellent.
  • .
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I see that a fellow named Blackadder played trumpet. Yet Rowan was nowhere to be seen. (Atkinson, as well as +Williams.)
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • I was finally able to see the arrivals and the entire service on the internet - and I wish that I hadn't. There was just enough that was totally out of place, plus an unbelievably immature American preacher who didn't know when to stop making a spectacle of himself. And, heaven forbid that Canterbury's cope and mitre should have even the vaguest Christian symbolism or embroidery on them. The music within the service, other than a lackluster offering of 'If Ye Love Me', was sadly mediocre. Still, miraculously, I'm a royalist and an Anglophile. Now, I shall go and hang my Union Jack from the great tree in my patio.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    @MJO We were singing lessons, Blessing Holy Water, Litany of the Saints and sung Mass at the time, EF Vigil of Pentecost. Have avoided looking at the videos on Youtube, and have just heard a few negative comments. Your review has confirmed my suspicions.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • On my rounds, one of my families noted that on that morning (our time) there had been a wedding. I said merely that I hadn't been following the news.

    Unlike Jackson, I'm a monarchist, not a royalist.
  • Rowan Atkinson would have been an interesting presider: “awful wedded wife” and all.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I was hoping for "In the name of the Father.......and holy spigot."
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Carol
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I can't imagine anyplace other than England where the taxpayers would keep a family of perfectly ordinary people in splendor to perform ceremonial functions. I fully understand what my Revolutionary War ancestors fought against - inherited privilege and bad religion.
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 393
    Most of our choir members watched it and were thrilled that two pieces sung by the St George's chapel choir are in their repertoire, If you love me and The Lord bless you (though we would never sing that one at Mass). I had expected some impenetrable modern Anglican tunelessness, so a pleasant surprise.
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    I appreciated and loved the chapel, organ, altar, altar frontal and the candle sticks and gold plate upon the altar, the carved choir stalls, stained glass and of course the extremely fine men and boys choir. The small orchestra was excellent (especially since I am also a former professional violist), but only approve of instrumentalists at non-mass services like this wedding. I thought, while very good, the gospel choir and its selection was inappropriate and out of place. While I appreciated the Episcopal Presiding bishop's fervor, I do think he was too long winded, rambled and in full "gospel mode." I noticed how his "gospel mode" made the prim and proper brits uncomfortable within the context of the formalism and dignity of the service. The 19 year old cellist was excellent!

    Finally, and I hope I'm not condemned too much for saying this, however, what does one expect when a church allows feminist activist progressives and others of the same anti-biblical ilk, intrusion and dominant control within its walls and over its ministries. I personally place some blame for all of this upon the shoulders of the queen and society in their efforts to be "modern" and "relevant." The bishops, clergy, doctors and scholars of the pre-world war l and ll Anglican Church would have general not allowed any of this and would certainly be rolling in the graves. I personally am aggrieved as to what has become of Christian churches in today's world; except maybe perhaps the Eastern Orthodox churches.

    The wedding was interesting, informative and somewhat entertaining to me (I also noticed the somewhat plastic body language of the quasi Hollywood jet set crowd). Nevertheless, with all my heart, I wish and pray for the couples happiness, best and Holy Spirit filled lives.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    I can't imagine anyplace other than England where the taxpayers would keep a family of perfectly ordinary people in splendor to perform ceremonial functions. I fully understand what my Revolutionary War ancestors fought against - inherited privilege and bad religion.


    Family of ordinary people, sounds like the U.S. president, Obama seemed to behave like a king at times.

    As for Tax, the taxpayer funding the Queen etc. is erm the Queen, the Crown Estates revenues are taxed at 100%, the treasury hands a small amount back to the Queen. The Queen also voluntarily pays tax on her private income.

    Yes the Queen is a low church protestant, but then that was popular where her family came from.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Family of ordinary people, sounds like the U.S. president, Obama seemed to behave like a king at times.


    Yes, he did, unfortunately. he could be quite insufferable, at times.

    I know the Queen pays tax, at least since the fire at the castle. Before that, she didn't pay on some income. But the whole idea of royal blood is archaic nonsense. The royals perpetrated that for their own benefit for centuries. Their blood is quite ordinary, no different from anyone else's and is more German than English, to begin with.

    The English church has had a slow decline and its counterpart in the U.S. has lost over a third of its members, maybe more. I point to the UK as an excellent example of how political correctness can destroy a country. At the beginning of the 20th century, it was the most powerful empire on earth. Now it is a small country caught up in navel gazing and liberalism. Sad, to be sure, but I don't want any of that political correctness imported to the U.S. I think, and hope, that the tide is turning and we are beginning to battle PC culture aggressively.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • ...don't want...political correctness imported to the U.S....

    Hmmm. The last time I stepped outside my door political correctness was alive and well in the US. Have you not noticed what has become of our vaunted freedom of speech at our universities and public sectors? Plus, although abortion is a hate crime it is widespread over here - and it's PC not to carry on about it.
    ________________________________________________

    Unlike Jackson...
    I'm not sure how Chris differentiates between a 'royalist' and a 'monarchist', but I have been both all my life. A country without a king is like a family without a father. Did a president ever leave his people fine art, architecture, music, literature, and more? And, I don't think that any of us would care to partake of what passes for entertainment at state dinners at the White House.
    ______________________________________________

    And while we wax fervently about the wonderful American revolution, it is worth taking note that fully 10% or less of the colonial population fought for it or supported it. And I suppose it wouldn't be PC to recall that in its wake tory's lands were confiscated, they were abused, and hordes of them fled to Canada - which a generation or two later the young US tried to snatch as well.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Viola
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    they were abused, and hordes of them fled to Canada - which a generation or two later the young US tried to snatch as well.


    No one wants Canada, icicles and all.

    And, I don't think that any of us would care to partake of what passes for entertainment at state dinners at the White House.


    Now you know free food would draw you out in a heartbeat. I hear it is pretty good.

    A country without a king is like a family without a father.


    Don't look to the English royals for any examples of good fatherhood. Their family has often been quite dysfunctional.

    Political correctness is a serious evil, which I try to combat at every turn. I think the new administration in Washington is making a similar attempt. How successful it will be is anyone's guess. All it takes is for the people to say enough and put a stop to it. It is, after all, our money the PC crowd spends. As for the church, a good liturgist hanging would get the attention of the others. LOL.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    "Did a president ever leave his people fine art, architecture, music, literature, and more?"

    Actually, yes. Not all of those, but some of those. Not all monarchs did any of those. I will just leave that there.

    The way this particular thread has meandered is not necessarily good advertising for its cause.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    A great measure of derisive commentary has concerned the sermon by RtRev Curry, particularly about his demeanor. To say it was enthusiastic might prove an understatement, but not in the way most critics have couched it. Take the time to consider the exegesis of the term "enthusiastic," and then consider well whether the bishop's demeanor was more or less than Christ-like, not to mention the import of the sermon. Must Christ-like always look and behave like Robert Powell's genteel model?
    Thanked by 1MarkS
  • 'Enthuse' means, if one desires a very literal etymology, to make god-like (en='to fill' or 'make', + theo, 'god' or 'divine'). I don't see that in the Rt Rev's sermon. He had his 'fifteen minutes of fame' and chose to make a tasteless adolescent spectacle of it.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm sure you'll correct me if I err, but to be "enthused" is to be imbued "in God," aka "filled with the Spirit." One doesn't only emulate Disraeli when enthused; besides, his dialectic (from Chardin) about love and its fire or ardor was spot on for a time where correction nee criticism is often mistaken for charity. As always, Jackson, YMMV.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Melo, you might want to read Cdl Newman's thoughts on 'enthusiasm'....
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • I also saw this on Twitter:
    Something else to note about the #RoyalWedding -- there are no "unity candles", no cheesy hymns, no silly off-hand comments made by the officiants. Catholic parishes, please take a note from our "High-Church" Protestant brethren-- a beautiful wedding is indeed possible.

    Of course, it was still low-church.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    IMVHO, that was NOT a very beautiful wedding... it was a show, complete with multiculturalism going over the top (complete with a .25 million dollar dress to boot)... so much so, that the 'royal' family and friends were a bit off balance on their own (our lost) turf. No, when one wanders from the center of what liturgy is truly about, then it will eventually find its way back to anthropocentric demonstrations of religious sentimentality... history proves this over and over again. This is the fulfillment of the Cranmer Creation.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw teachermom24
  • I hate to disabuse you all, but - There was nothing 'high church' about this wedding. No chaunting, much playing fast and loose with the BCP marriage rite, a variety show of very un-religious music by a variety show of performers, no incense, and not even an Anglican mass - and Canterbury's bizarrely embroidered vesture could have been for some wierd extra-planetary religion on Star Trek. No, it was very low church - most of the music being good or alright and all being done in some sort of decentliness and order. And that is not to mention the astonishing cultural presumption of the Episcopalian primate's style of preaching.

    Of all the music, both good and bad, the young 'cellist was the best performed - but! what was a 'cello recital doing within a wedding rite?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    There was nothing 'high church' about this wedding. No chaunting, much playing fast and loose with the BCP marriage rite, a variety show of very un-religious music by a variety show of performers, no incense, and not even an Anglican mass


    AMEN.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Makes me glad I didn't watch it, and probably never will.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • It's just as well, Charles.
    You may have had a stroke from getting all upset at this throne of royals and their bowing and scraping and fawning admirers.
    Here is this, to really make your day -
    I have always considered George III to be the true Father of Our Country - for reason...
    it was he after all who granted us our independence - and to think that we didn't even have the decency to thank him for it.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Melo, you might want to read Cdl Newman's thoughts on 'enthusiasm'....

    Dad, enlighten me, please.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    He was agin' it.

    :-)

    "Enthusiasm" is Newman's book about sects that engaged in what we now call "charismatic" phenomena, e.g., the denomination "Catholic Apostolic Church" inspired by Scottish minister Edward Irving.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    You mean Msgr. Knox, don't you, Chonak?

    [Yes, thank you.--RC]
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    Did anyone catch the theological / doctrinal errors in the Presiding Episcopal Bishop's talk? Listen very very carefully in light of what he said about love - ALL love. Do you recall how many forms of love there are from the Greeks? Some are not so divine, right? He, in my opinion, directly and subtly implied that ALL love is of GOD and therefore a wonderful thing to be promote, encouraged and implemented. Maybe, as a product of the modernist theological religious education and seminary training, he was unaware his preaching wasn't pure Christian scripture. If you doubt me, go back and listen extremely carefully to his message. Not all love is of GOD.

    BTW - the only thing I liked about the Archbishop of Canterbury's cope, was the semi-precious stones, the two cabachons and threads of gold - or were they rhinestones and gold polyester threads? And wow, if his vocal chords had been any tighter, I wonder if he could've breathed, let alone speak.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I have always considered George III to be the true Father of Our Country - for reason...it was he after all who granted us our independence - and to think that we didn't even have the decency to thank him for it.


    He didn't grant us anything. We took it from him by force.

    A good friend maintains the Stuarts are the rightful monarchs, not this family of displaced Germans. He has a point.

    I just saw that the British taxpayers are on the hook for $45 million for this wedding. Apparently, $40 million was for security. If they think it worth the cost, it's their money, although I am sure they could have put it to better use. But hey, fools and their money are often parted.

    Archbishop of Canterbury? Was he there? I call him Archbishop Yoda, since the resemblance is stunning.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934

    We know which one Eastwood was. Who are the other two?


    Was he there? You must have watched.

    Good: I am hearing the young cellist was very good.

    Bad: Too much of that going around to point fingers.

    Ugly: Aside from some former Protestants who, at times, bring all their obnoxiousness to us and become ugly Catholics, some maintain particular vestments were ugly. Didn't see them.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    "He didn't grant us anything. We took it from him by force."

    And, the substantive political truth is that it was the Duke of Portland's (first) ministry that decided to acknowledge the reality.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Stimson, Chonak is correct, although Knox may have agreed with Newman. When you read the essays, you can almost hear the distaste for 'enthusiasms' as Newman writes.
  • Kevin814
    Posts: 42
    Of all the music, both good and bad, the young 'cellist was the best performed - but! what was a 'cello recital doing within a wedding rite?


    The couple and a few others actually slipped out of the chapel at that point. My guess is that they went to sign the register, which, unlike in the United States, is a required part of the ceremony (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    https://ceremonyplanner.yourchurchwedding.org/stage-5

    So the cello music was simply an interlude to cover a few minutes where the assembled congregation would have seen nothing.


  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Kevin

    You are correct, thought they didn't slip, but were accompanied by the groom's father and the bride's mother, as the legal witnesses.