Against the heresies... singing in the church!
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100

    A priest of my acquaintance is doing a translation of “Against All Heresies”, by Fr. Alphonso de Castro, O.F.M (who attended the Council of Trent and was chaplain to King Phillip II of Spain).

    One of the heresies refuted held that singing in the church is sinful (!) ... see chapter attached.
    Singing.pdf
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I have heard some whose singing should be a sin.

    Thanks for the article. I will read it tomorrow when I have more time.
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  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    You should, Charles. To sum up - St. Augustine talks about how the custom of singing in church came from the East - to relieve tedium. Who knew? :P
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  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    oh now.
    I believe St Augustine was talking about his local church, not The Church - and the singing he referred to was to relieve the tedium of sorrow. Not 'tedium'.
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  • bdh
    Posts: 4
    Hello! I've just signed up to this forum, though I have been reading your interesting discussions for months.
    As for the holiness of singing, it was sanctified by Jesus himself: "When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives." Mt.26:30
    However, the singing in the Milanese church (Ambrosian rite) during the 19th century did seem to be a countermeasure to tedium, unless, of course, they just really liked it. So much was the focus on the music that the various parishes entered into a sort of competition for producing the best music, including orchestral pieces. There were even liturgical music critics who wrote "reviews" in the local newspaper evaluating and comparing the music so people could choose which mass to attend. I don't know if the "rule" of attending mass in the parish where you live was applicable back then, but this certainly went against it.
    The whole situation got a little out of hand and had to be brought back in line (I don't remember how.) Unfortunately, nowadays they have swung too far in the other direction so that many parishes - though certainly not all - downplay the singing on Sunday and do without altogether on weekdays.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    If it was just his local church, then why did he add as a coda: "which custom, retained from then till now, is imitated by many, yea, by almost all of Thy congregations throughout the rest of the world"?

    And tedium, in all its different flavors, is still tedium.

    (I don't necessary hold the theory that singing came exclusively from the East - I just thought Charles would like a Byzantine shout-out from Augustine, of all people.)
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Perhaps if we were more "invested" in Te Deum, tedium would be less of a companion?
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  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    >> If it was just his local church, then why did he add as a coda: "which custom, retained from then till now, is imitated by many, yea, by almost all of Thy congregations throughout the rest of the world"?

    That was what, 450 AD. 'the rest of the world' as St. Augustine knew it was a little different then from what it is now; even so, I wonder if there is one person on this forum who puts their considerable time, effort, and talents into a complex and challenging program of polyphony, and the rest of the Church's vast treasury of sacred music (most of which did not exist in St. Augustine's time), simply to relieve tedium.

    Of course, I could be wrong. :-) Anyone?
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  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,801
    Having put in journeyman years in what might be called the yardsale of sacred music, I can say that working with real treasure is far, far less tedious.
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