Masses 'with Children'
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I am now 70 but am under the mistaken impression that I am 12. I suppose that is why I have so many young friends. 12 was a good year. I think I will stay there some more. ;-)
  • Repetition at School Mass

    And be sure to click on BEFORE link in the article as well.
  • 1912?
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    1912 was probably a good year, but way before my time. I expect to get out of puberty by the time I am 95. ;-)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen bhcordova
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Growing old is inescapable. Growing up is optional.

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I often say, follow me around and try to keep up with me. I will leave you in the dust. LOL.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    mbwittry: the very direct correlation between this document and the experience of worship in most Catholic parishes today.

    You are exactly correct.

    Proverbs 22:6 (USCCB NAB)
    Train the young in the way they should go;
    even when old, they will not swerve from it.


    I have from the beginning of this Forum
    refrained from creating a Discussion with the title

    directory.for.masses.with.children.1973.must.die.die.die

    (This style should be familiar to those who remember internet newsgroups.)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    And it has, somewhat. If it hasn't really died yet, it seems to be strangely quiet. :-)

    The document was written when the revised form of Mass hadn't even been implemented yet in most countries, in the era when translations were guided by the document Comme le prévoit. Now we are in a different era, in which the Church emphasizes the importance of practicing the Roman Rite and not an overly adapted version of it: Comme le prévoit was replaced with Liturgiam authenticam.

    I suppose I'm making an argument from silence here, but when the Third Edition of the Roman Missal came out, a decision was made with some relevance to this topic: the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children were quietly replaced, in the published book, with nothing. That decision was made during the reign of Pope Benedict, and, as far as I know, it hasn't been changed since. Sometimes it seems the Holy See doesn't draw attention to an obsolete document by expressly revoking it; but treats it as irrelevant by ceasing to update it, invoke it or apply it. Is that perhaps what has happened to the Directory for Masses with Children?

    Thanked by 3CharlesW Carol eft94530
  • Gosh, I wish Benedict were still the Pope!! I also with the Office of Divine Worship at the USCCB would make a statement sound liturgical practices, i.e., from the Roman Missal, apply to ALL Masses. The other big thing I am working on here in the trenches, is to get the new Assistant Principal to understand that, as Catholics, we do pray in other ways than the Mass. Plus, I think all these 'fun' songs that she is wanting to introduce need to be for school only; then they can rock and roll all they want!
    Thanked by 3Carol eft94530 CHGiffen
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    If only, Chonak.

    According to this article on ZENIT, the Eucharistic Prayers for masses with children were dropped from the 2008 edition of the Roman Missal in Latin (and so in the new English Roman Missal) only because they were not intended to be said in Latin. (They were included in the 2002 Latin edition.)

    However, their use is still permitted. In fact they are available from the USCCB website in an updated translation (i.e. they incorporate the new translations of the Preface Dialogue, Sanctus, words of institution, Memorial Acclamations, and Concluding Doxology into the existing translation). A new translation of the main part of the prayers in supposedly on the agenda.
  • Thanks friends, for all your comments and suggestions; most helpful! :)


  • Here are a some other developments that I think tend to support chonak’s suggestion.

    1) For many years before the recent Mass translation was implemented, the Directory for Masses with Children (DMC) was printed in all altar Missals (at least in the US) immediately after the GIRM, although the DMC was never in the Latin typical edition of the Missal. Thanks to Liturgiam autheticam’s requirement that translated Missals contain all and only that which is in the typical edition, that is no longer the case.

    2) The Lectionary for Masses with Children (LMC) mentioned in DMC §43 was originally approved by the US bishops in 1991. In November 2005 a revised LCM which included a revised Introduction, revised list of readings and a new translation—a modified version of the “adult” Lectionary was approved by the US bishops’ conference. It was sent to the Holy See for recognitio, which has not been granted. I have seen no published reports of any other response from Rome. This suggests at least a lack of encouragement for use of such LMC’s.

    3) There was an additional reason given for withdrawal of the Eucharistic Prayers for Children not mentioned in the Zenit article posted by rich_enough. Cardinal Francis Arinze, then-prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, said the following in an interview with the magazine 30 Days in 2008.
    http://www.30giorni.it/articoli_id_19635_l3.htm

    The decree also states that the reprinted Missal no longer contains the Eucharistic prayers for Masses with children ... 

    ARINZE: In fact it was decided that those two Eucharistic prayers are not considered mandatory for the whole Church. Perhaps it is not then so necessary to have special Eucharistic prayers for children. That said, if there are Bishops’ Conferences that want to keep them, they may do so in their national missals.

    This at least makes the point that bishops are not obliged to allow these prayers. It does not impose them on conferences that never requested them nor tend to revive their use in places where they have perhaps already died out or are in the process of doing so, as including them in the Missal would have.

    A ‘benign neglect’ approach may not be effective, however. For example, the lack of response on the new LMC has left the older version in use. This employs a seriously defective translation using “inclusive” language and eliminating sacral vocabulary (such as salvation, grace and anointed). This is occurring, apparently, with at least tacit approval from the Bishops even though the earlier LMC originally had permission only for experimental use for short a period. The period was extended several times, but I would think the last temporary extension (given in 2000) would have expired by now.

    For more details on the origin, interpretation and implementation of the DMC see the series of articles in Adoremus Bulletin published in 2003 and 2004. I can't seem to get a link to work but if you type
    www.adoremus.org/1103ChildrenLiturgy.html
    into your browser it should take you to Part I, which includes links to Parts II and III.
  • This employs a seriously defective translation


    "she wrapped him in baby clothes"

    Every Christmas. Despite the rubric that does not permit the LMC to be used on Christmas. (I always pictured Mary putting a onesie on baby Jesus.) Then there was the birthday cake, and the singing of happy birthday and Santa passing out candy canes. All because of DMC being held in higher esteem by an "educator" with no authority than any other liturgical document and a pastor who didn't care.

    Fortunately that is all in the past.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    I don't recall ever seeing a depiction of Our Lord either as a newborn or in swaddling bands.
    [Edit 20 min later]Here's one on the blog Rorate caeli. at 40 days.
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    640 x 350 - 391K
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,827
    Do you think he ever wore those onesie thingys that have catchy phrases on the front?

    What would a good Jesus Onsie Say!

    sparkle crown front.jpg
    1200 x 1600 - 101K
  • What would a good Jesus Onsie Say!


    Yes, in fact, I am the most important person in the world ?
    Thanked by 2Incardination Carol
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    Incredible onesie! If I just knew someone appropriate for this gift I would buy it.