Just watched a recording, focussing on the Resposorial Psalm. As a PiP I am curious to know why it is expected that the congregation can join in without prompting, but a choir needs someone standing before them waving their arms. Note that the cantors only raised an arm in a gesture commensurate with such a space, but the choir got full time shepherding.
But then, ugh, ¿how could anyone sing that music?

CGZ - most of those in this case. Certainly that accompaniment, on a simulacrum of a piano(?), gave no indication of anything, and neither did the tune.
Not that I dislike the music of Steve Reich, but I would not want to sing along to it!

For anyone wishing to see all or part of the event, a video recording of the Mass is on-line at http://www.olacathedral.org/live/REQUIEM.html

The first few minutes of the video, before the Mass, included a dance performance at 11:35 into the video.
The entrance procession starts around 13:30 into the video.
The first words of the Mass are spoken at 24:30.
It was immediately followed by introductions for representatives of non-Catholic churches attending the Mass.
The penitential rite (spoken) began at 27:30.
A sung "Glory to God" began at 28:33. (The Mass was celebrated on a Saturday evening.)
The collect was read at 30:45.
The first reading began at 31:45 (without "A reading from....")
The psalm was sung at 33:25. The text of the verses appears to be a paraphrase, not taken from the Lectionary or another known approved source.
The second reading began at 37:25.
The gospel acclamation began at 39:30.
The gospel reading began at 41:05.
The homily began at 44:00 and was completed at 55:00.
The creed was recited at 55:30.
The intercessions began at 57:00 and ended at 1:01:50.
Music for the offertory began at 1:02:30. The offertory ceremonies were lengthy.
The bishop continued the text of the Mass at 1:11:25.
The "Holy" began at 1:12:55.
The Eucharistic Prayer (III) began at 1:14:10.
The memorial acclamation was sung at 1:16:05.
The "Amen" began at 1:19:03, and ended at 1:19:48.
The Our Father was spoken next.
The Peace began at 1:21:07.
The "Lamb of God" was sung from 1:22:00 to 1:23:10.
The Communion of the archbishop and concelebrants followed.
Music for the communion began at 1:24:12.
Distribution of Holy Communion ended at 1:37:38.
There was a minute of silence before the Postcommunion prayer at 1:38:20.
At 1:39:00, a laywoman made a short expression of thanks to the people present.
Then the cathedral's lights were dimmed as processions of laypeople brought candles to the sanctuary, leaving them to form an arc around the altar. There was a period of silence for three minutes.
The pastor of the cathedral parish expressed thanks to participants at 1:53:00.
The pontifical blessing was at 1:55:00.
A song began at 1:56:00.

Chonak,

Very helpful break down you've provided. Thank you for saving me the trouble of watching any portion of it.

Was that a quasi Wiccan or Druidic interpretive dance at the begin? Maybe I misunderstood and the music was suppose to be quasi black Gospel via Motown? Were there Catholic women clergy/priestesses? Where was the replica of Stonehenge? Somehow I got a hint of New Age Shamanism perhaps?

Seriously though, in my humble opinion, the American Roman Catholic church has lost its mind and the schism has already taken place. People who have bought into this kind of ceremony, thinking it is Catholic, have been demonically and intentionally deceived and brainwashed.

I am all for praying for and remembering the slaughter and murder of the innocent and unborn and we should all be storming the gates of heaven and earth. However, we should also be praying for the restoration and Holy Spirit enlightenment of the Church - its people and clergy!

(Luke 13:13-14)

13Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. 14How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

I thought I saw some promotional posters for this event - to be fair, they promised "dinner and a show". On that level, I thought they delivered.

Out of curiosity, are there ANY situations in which cantors bringing the congregation in with a gesture is okay? It stresses me out every time I read a thread about it here because we do it at my church, but my church is the National Shrine in DC and I feel like it might be warranted in a space that large. (That said I would love to stop doing it because it makes me feel like an idiot every time.) I'm worried that whatever else we do here is eclipsed by our gauche cantor cues.

Josquin, do they do what you are thinking of at Westminster Cathedral in London? I doubt it, but I would be interested to know for certain. If they don't, then all I can think of is, "if its good enough for the goose, its good enough for the gander."

The evangelicals and Baptists think its jolly ok. However, I believe their view comes from an orchestral / stage perception. Liturgical churches are suppose to be on a higher spiritual awareness within their liturgies. Again, although I am Anglican Catholic, may I suggest an indepth study of the Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgies. They have perfected the ability and art of responsorial call and answer; of antiphonally correct singing.

As a side note, to me personally, the DC National Shrine is unusual. Perhaps there is some degree of influence on them from the Washington Episcopal National Cathedral; which is by no means sane!

Josquin,

Let me turn the question around on you: if you do make this gesture -- whatever it is -- between the people who can't see you (sight-line, distance, head in book, whatever) and the people who don't care what you're doing, who is your gesture serving or pleasing?

AFAIK there is no gesturing for the choral liturgies at Westminster Cathedral.

are there ANY situations in which cantors bringing the congregation in with a gesture is okay?

At funerals, when most of the congregation seems unfamiliar with the rite of Mass.

It is the custom in my church to do raise an arm for the responsorial psalm phrase. I also feel silly when I do it, however I just raise my arm and lower it with as little "to do" as possible. I think this practice was started in my church because someone was copying what they had seen in a televised Mass. Now I would hesitate to stop doing the arm raising because I wouldn't want the congregation to think I was discouraging them from singing. On the other hand if this is the biggest controversy we had, we would be most fortunate!

...and then you put a stop to the participation of the people, who now sit like mute spectators just as they did in the Dark Ages when dogs climbed over communion rails and the priests did their thing with their backs facing the people. You're probably a restorationist who hates Vatican II?


[too lazy to remember how to put purple on]

I think the abilities of the "people" are greatly underrated. Three Sundays ago, the cantor for my early morning mass was ill. Sick to the point he could barely talk. I couldn't get a replacement that late. The pastor started the hymns and when we did the Ordinary, the "people" came in and sang just as well as they would have with a cantor. It wasn't a problem.

I am feeling embarrassed, as a Catholic, that this liturgy is what those non-Catholic folks up front experienced as an example of the Catholic Mass. Not to boast, but I think I could have managed something superior with the small choir at my parish in the backwoods of Wyoming.

Regarding hand gestures by the cantor, I intensely dislike them. I use them, as chonak mentioned, at funerals for the benefit of the non-Catholics, but in the least dramatic way possible. I used them very sparingly this last Sunday since we were introducing the Lalemant Propers to our parish, and I wanted to ensure that it was understood how they were to work and when the congregation was supposed to sing. However, the people picked it up pretty easily (we have that rare phenomenon at our parish of a Catholic congregation that actually sings) and seemed to “get it” so I will no longer be using them for that.

I think the original purpose of this post was to lament the kind of music that was used at that Mass, so stylized that participation was almost impossible, cued or not.

I was actually surprised when we did Vespers and Mass at my parish for the first time, with alternating congregational responses, and a majority of the congregation was engaged and singing. But maybe that was because of the printed program where everything was clearly laid out.

Congregations are able and willing to participate--but perhaps they need more guidance, or at least a roadmap for what they should do, before they can begin.

I really don't think there was enough "scooping" by the cantors. ; -)

I didn't sit through the introductions and only watched portions of the responsorial psalm and entrance, but looking at the style of cassocks and attire, I am guessing the ecumenical observers were a mix of Anglican and Eastern Orthodox.

If so, why weren't they treated to the best the Catholic Church's Latin Church sui juris had to offer?

Here is more fully Isidore.

Porro vox lectoris simplex erit, clara, ad omne pronuntiationis genus accommodata, plena virili succo, agrestem et subrusticum effugiens sonum, non humilis, nec adeo sublimis, non fracta vel tenera, nihilque femineum sonans, neque cum motu corporis, sed tantum cum gravitatis specie. Auribus enim et cordi consulere debet lector, non oculis, ne potius ex seipso eos spectatores magis, quam auditores faciat.

Species here means something good: "in appearance only dignified", rather than "with only the appearance of seriousness".

Evidently Isidore was not keen on coarse, unrefined, country accents, and not on women lectors either. A rich (" juicy") male voice with no hint of femininity, for him.

I asked the pastor

Rookie mistake ;-) Who's responsible for the batteries, anyway?

Those of you who were at St. Michael's Cathedral Basilica for Vespers and Lecture with Cardinal Sarah would know that the congregation (a full Cathedral) was the heartiest congregation I've ever heard.

For the psalm, if the choir needs to sing the verses, can they be in harmony and the refrain be very clearly in unison? It's confusing where I am because someone decided that it would be an excellent idea that the choir should sing the second half of the psalm verse in unison (thus confusing everyone as to what the response actually is). It doesn't exactly foster the singing of the refrain. No cantor cues at all.