Not to mention that if nobody is directing the child's attention to the Mass, she isn't learning about what is going on.

The first church is the domestic church. For all people in your music programme, their first responsibility in their family. If family responsibilities means they are unable to cantor, then you have Mass without a cantor, or you schedule someone else to do it.

Could you install a Rood Screen between the cantor and the congregation?

I've been cantor for multiple EF (full Gregorian) Masses with my kids in the pew with me, and some with one child in my lap while I was about 8 months pregnant.. That church is in a similar set-up: there's a balcony, but it's not a choir loft. The choir area is in the "front," to the "left" of the sanctuary. I usually choose to sit in the back pew to sing the Mass there. I know everyone can hear me, but (even when my husband is able to take the kids so they aren't in my same pew) I don't have to worry about the fact that I don't need to be up front in the (left-of-) center of attention. Maybe that's just me.
I don't use a microphone the few times it seems there might be a "need" for me to be closer to the priest (ie access to the organ for his cues because we don't have an organist that Sunday, or something), either.

You didn't mention the use of a microphone. Is there one?

Is the child impeding his ability to do his job? If not, and the priest hasn't made a complaint, could we consider that perhaps people aren't supposed to be (and probably don't need to be) watching the cantor, anyway?


On a side note:
I bring my 3 kids, solo, to daily Mass and sit in the front pews, for their benefit. I know that sometimes they don't behave like the angels we might wish them to be for the entire 30-40 minutes, but I also know that they get more "out of it" (and consequently do behave better than if they were in the back) when they are closer to the sanctuary. I have yet to be asked to sit elsewhere because they are too distracting.

Chris - To me, that is a wonderful way of approaching it! Thank you, Clerget, too for your addition! My first born is still in utero, but I think I would be very receptive to that sort of reasoning if I were in his situation and I will need to be doing the same balancing act soon enough.

I agree and reiterate, there's nothing wrong with what the little girl is doing, and she is learning as she grows.

We can get by without this gentleman, but I am still interested in keeping peace and gentle persuasion rather than "firing" him so to speak. If it comes to that for lack of persuasion and/or cooperation in good-faith, so be it.

Stimson, you'll have to teach me your ways of the purple text, once it starts working ;) I don't think anyone here is implying that the girl is at fault nor did your tongue-in-cheek comment about rood screens get taken seriously (I hope not anyway). The girl is quite a cutie, but she also can get into mischief and has a "theatrical" personality. That makes things like microphones and manuals, pedalboards and wooden risers that are quite sonorous under impact (from feet or things dropping on them) even more appealing.

CCooze, I appreciate your weighing in with practical experience. It sounds like you have been able to manage having kids with you while performing music ministry during mass quite successfully. We do have microphones - many actually. Due to the size of the church building, I don't think they're necessary other than to support the system we have to assist people with diminished hearing (fancy, I know!).

For the record, I think having kids in the front pews of the congregation should be greatly encouraged. I am not a fan of making parents feel guilty about a crying child or feeling like they should be taken out of the church. The more they can see and hear the better! I do however think there is a distinction with the situation de jour. It's actually not as easy to see the sanctuary and the ambo from the choir area as it is from the front pews that face the altar. It might actually be more engaging for the little one to be able to see something. It is distracting to the father of the child. But I can wait for him to be ready to start a hymn/psalm or extend an intro. Sometimes in order to sing he needs to let her climb around the choir benches.

Off topic a little... It's also wonderful that little guys and girls can experience TLM/EF mass. Even though less of the mass is audible compared to the OF mass, I have found with my nieces and nephews as well as other children, they are taken into it. It also helps that the EF masses in our area tend to be celebrated in ornate churches with lots of sacred images that we can look at quietly and teach a little that way too.

Anyway, I'm still waiting and praying while I consider all of the elements and implications to what I may say. Again, I am only looking for a charitable and just solution for everyone. Father is distracted and bothered by it but is avoiding confrontation. The music director feels similarly, but has her own complications... Thanks all for your input. It's been a huge help!

My kids are older now (12, 11, 9) but they started attending gigs with us when they were very young. As a result, they have excellent manners in musical situations-sometimes better than the adults sitting around them. Our church has little cards in the pews that say "God put the wiggle in little children" and something else about parents don't be afraid to come to Mass with young children etc. I don't mind the wiggling, but if the child is screeching constantly, running around, touching things she shouldn't, then I might reconsider the situation. I think you are on the right track to encourage Dad-cantor to turn this into a teaching experience for his daughter. Keeping her engaged in what's happening will hopefully reduce the mischief.

If church musicians refer to their service as "a gig," they should not be surprised when their children one day say, "I don't do those gigs any more."

irishtenor,

Thank you for your observation but, actually, I was not referring to Fidem's comment at all. However, her use of the term "gig" for contracted musical events reminded me that many church musicians (including a very close relative of mine) refer to all the weddings, funerals, Masses they sing and play for as "gigs." I've told my relative to stop thinking of musical service to the Church as a gig and a paycheck.

My piece of salt :

When I was around 3/4 years old, my father sang in the gregorian schola every sunday at the early morning Mass. As I was an early-waker child, he sometimes took me with him, along my older brother who was an altar server at that mass (Gregorian OF). Mom and the 4 other siblings went to the late morning Mass.

So I was with the schola, sitting on the kneeler or on the bench, watching everything (including Elder Brother serving Mass), hearing everything and... being with my belove father. And, perhaps, disturbing the schola with my behavior (though I don't remember that part. Sure, I behaved very well and was the cutest of all little girls).

To this day, these memories of sitting at the feet of my father with the schola are still among the fondest of my childhood memories. If there is any possibility to keep her without her disturbing too much, don't rob her from that.

A child (or any other non-ritual person) of any age does not belong in the sanctuary - ever.
The sanctuary is solely for the sacred ministers and those, such as cantors, who fulfill a ritual function. No one else, aged 4 or 94, belongs there. This is an affront to the people, to the ritual, and to God. Schedule another cantor and politely and respectfully let this gentleman know that his daughter may not sit in the sanctuary. (Do you have a cry room? Could she sit with friends of the cantor? Surely there is a 'Christian' solution to this.)

It is astonishing that anyone could not know this, or couldn't intuit it.

(It's really odd the the priest hasn't said something - long ago.

When I was around 3/4 years old, my father sang in the gregorian schola every sunday at the early morning Mass. As I was an early-waker child, he sometimes took me with him, along my older brother who was an altar server at that mass (Gregorian OF). Mom and the 4 other siblings went to the late morning Mass.

IdeK, were you in public view, or were you in the balcony? Were you prancing around in the sanctuary? I suspect not...

My apologies, Fr. Krisman. I stand completely corrected. I'm reading his book The Reform of the Liturgy now, and am learning much -- but evidently I forgot what his promotion was.

I've told my relative to stop thinking of musical service to the Church as a gig and a paycheck.

Back to the days when, as is common still in many countries, when Catholics are expected to play without pay...by priests who are paid a salary and a Mass stipend.

A priest's gig is what he is paid to do. And he receives a paycheck.

Why shouldn't we?

This is exactly why all but a very few expert Catholic organists are playing in Protestant churches and Synagogues.

"It is all located in front to the left of the sanctuary"

In my mind, this meant that none of the people in this scenario are actually in the sanctuary.

While this (attached) choir is "to the left" of the sanctuary, and should act like they know they are in plain sight of the congregation, are they in the sanctuary?
In such a design, it seems that the altar area itself (up the steps) is the only sanctuary.

In this particular setup, if a child is over where the organist can see her, does it necessarily follow that everyone can see her?

I grew up going to Mass many times with my mother when she was cantor, and I do think that is the how many of our future cantor's will develop a love for Mass and sacred music.
We sat in the front pew and "minded" each other. Remember, the length of time this will be a problem is short and soon the child will be old enough to sit in the pew alone and be well behaved. To offend a willing cantor would be a shame, but having a child truly distracting from Mass is not permissable either. It really depends on the child's behavior. I like the idea of having some else be a "grandma" to the child. This is not an easy problem and I pray you have divine guidance and wisdom to find a solution that is mutually successful.