Applause for pianist
  • alanacembala
    Posts: 2
    I'm a church organist where I have really enjoyed serving. Except for one thing.
    Every Sunday, the pianist gets rousing applause for just about every offertory or prelude
    she plays. I, on the other hand, have the pastor clapping, and that's about
    it. I vary what I play and try hard to prepare and do a good job.
    I know I'm playing for the glory of God, but it's just a defeated feeling
    Sunday after Sunday.

    Any thoughts or suggestions for me to consider?
    Thank you!
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Alanacembala,

    1) (purple) Sack the pianist (purple)
    2) (NOT PURPLE) Is it worth asking why people are clapping (for you, or for the pianist) at Mass? (NOT PURPLE)
    Thanked by 3Ben francis eft94530
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Well! That there is applause for anyone is cause for concern about the people's understanding of the mass. You shouldn't feel at all bad. The pastor should set everyone straight that this is worship, in which everyone's acts are toward God, not a performance for their enjoyment for which applause is appropriate. It isn't - ever.

    The last thing you should do is to let anyone, especially this pianist, get the feeling that you are jealous. Righteous disdain, not envy, is what is called for from you. If you address the pastor about this, the tenor of your remarks should be the utter inappropriateness of applause for anyone at mass, not that you aren't getting your fair share of it.

    (And, the fact that people are applauding a pianist at mass is an extremely negative statement about their taste and discernment of what is fitting for worship.)
    Thanked by 8canadash Casavant Organist francis ClergetKubisz Viola Spriggo CHGiffen eft94530
  • alanacembala
    Posts: 2
    Forgot to mention that I'm a Roman Catholic serving as organist in a Methodist church. The role of music in church has always seemed radically different in Protestant churches compared to what I grew up with in my Catholic parish.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Methodist churches can be all over the place liturgically. We have one in town that could rival any Anglican cathedral. Others are like Baptist churches. Methodists don't really have a "norm" when it comes to music.
  • music123
    Posts: 100
    I attended a church music program at a Baptist Seminary, and the dean of the music school told us that the only time he thought applause for music in worship is appropriate is for a children's or youth choir. So it is not just Catholics who are concerned about this. But if the pastor is himself applauding, I don't know what you can do. You could look for a quote by a Methodist about this issue to show to the pastor. But you should probably tread carefully.... I worked at a Methodist church for a few years and realized at some point that the service felt like "Christian Family Entertainment Hour." Applause honestly just seems to fit right in there.

    On the other hand, how good is the organ??? You can also look for an incredibly loud, flashy postlude, using as many trumpets and 16th notes as possible. (I know of some good and not difficult ones if you are interested.) This is purely for the purpose of spiritual edification, of course, not to make any kind of statement about the superiority of instruments for worship!!! (Tell yourself that, anyhow!) ;-)
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    If you know of some good and not difficult ones, please share them! I'm always looking for flashy stuff that I can put together fairly quickly
  • Reval
    Posts: 186
    I'm wondering if this whole issue is non-music related, in some sense. Maybe the pianist is a young pup that has been at the church for his / her whole life, and they are trying to encourage him? Or maybe you play in a vastly different style than the pianist, and they want you to play more happy-clappy music? Or the people in power at that church are of the generation that sometimes doesn't care for organ music (aka aging baby boomers).
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Ah, so: so it's a Methodist church. Even less reason to feel slighted, allowing as how theirs is hardly a paradigm of objective worship. Spiritual entertainment is not what you are about. It is astonishing that you can endure what you are being put through. And, so long as you are there you should well consider the lack of applause for your offerings to God to be the greater honour. We applaud mere entertainers, not church musicians. Not the slightest tinge of envy should besmirch your soul.

    Charles is right about Methodists. I played for some last summer (and never will again) because I had no experience with them and thought they would be sort of very low church Anglican in their worship. Ha! Far from it. It was like a spiritual Ed Sullivan show, applause and all. Never again. On the other hand we have a Methodist church in town that has one of the city's finest choirs and regularly offers evensong right from the BCP that is flawless.
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    You should find the article Peter kwasnewski (spelling?) wrote/shared on pianos in churches and why they shouldn't be there.
    Not because I think you should kick the pianist out or anything cos Methodists have to do whatever they have to do but because it actually highlights why the pianist might be getting applause and you not.

    Put simply the grand piano is a concert instrument, designed to wow a crowd. The organ is designed for liturgical worship, to accompany the mass and to support voices.

    It is no wonder audiences or congregants if you like would have different dispositions towards the instruments.

    If that isn't it then maybe the pianist plays better or something. OR maybe they play really badly and it's pity clapping.

    I dunno but I reckon it's the historical design of the instruments.
    I also think get yourself out of there and into a Catholic Church again because it sounds like the way these people treat their musicians is taking a toll on your spiritual wellbeing. It's very easy to lose sight of why you are in a place playing in service when you receive adulations or criticisms from people. This to some extent is also a problem in the Catholic Church sometimes because for example an organist might get caught up in wanting to impress their parish priest who showers them in compliments when they excel or criticises their every mistake. I've seen all too often someone lose sight of why they are really there.

    Perhaps you can ask your pastor to not clap at all if you want to stay there though.
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 245
    My solution, when I'm feeling such things (often enough!), is the Litany of Humility:
    O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
    From the desire of being esteemed,
    Deliver me, Jesus.
    From the desire of being loved...
    From the desire of being extolled ...
    From the desire of being honored ...
    From the desire of being praised ...
    From the desire of being preferred to others...
    From the desire of being consulted ...
    From the desire of being approved ...
    From the fear of being humiliated ...
    From the fear of being despised...
    From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
    From the fear of being calumniated ...
    From the fear of being forgotten ...
    From the fear of being ridiculed ...
    From the fear of being wronged ...
    From the fear of being suspected ...

    That others may be loved more than I,
    Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
    That others may be esteemed more than I ...
    That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease ...
    That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
    That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
    That others may be preferred to me in everything...
    That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…

    Then, as a musician working with other musicians, here is another we like to add at the end:
    That I may bear the burden of others' mistakes ...
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Viola
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    There really is no excuse for the congregation clapping after the pianist plays. It is highly inappropriate, whether Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox. He is there for the greater glory of God, not adulation from the crowd. Talk with the minister. It sounds as if the congregation needs a reminder from him as to why they are there.
    Thanked by 1JL
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Applause is the destination of the Hillsong-like or CCM modem. In the parlance of our times (reference?) it's their rayzon duhtruh and métier.
    Thank God if that mindset is not at your parish, and you don't have lattes/bagels/conversations wandering about as integral to the service!
    Gathering Rite? Humbug.
    Boom.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLYyHIYFstw
  • princehalprincehal
    Posts: 50
    The pianist is performing. You are praying, which is a good thing.

    The piano is a performance instrument, organ is a worship instrument.

    An analogy could be: "my friend does three tap-dances and gets applause every time. When I say the opening and closing prayer, though, only the pastor gives me applause. I feel defeated."

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/8561/banish-all-guitars-and-pianos-from-the-church-dr.-peter-kwasniewski/p1
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    The pianist is accompanying. You don't applaud the accompanist when a singer sings a concert, so why would you do it when he accompanies a choir at Mass. And too many organists are being performers at Mass. Especially on the last verse of a hymn when you can't even hear the choir for the organ playing fff
    Thanked by 1contemporaryworship92
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