English Propers (1964)
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Here is an interesting title from the World Library of Sacred Music, published in 1964, applicable to the old calendar of course. Again, it underscores how much work was being done in the 60s to bring together music and vernacular propers. This is not a project I really support but, on the other hand, they were inevitable by 1965 and then institutionalized in 1970. Incredibly, all the work that had take place over the previous 10-20 years was just tossed out, and new propers were written for the Missal with a new and much inferior translation.

    One of many things that make you wonder: What were they thinking?

    Technically the book is still under copyright, though I couldn't find anyone willing to claim "ownership" or anyone who cared about it either way. If someone out there doesn't like it--someone with a real stake in the text or music, not just some copyright troll--write me and I'll take it down.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I think this is an amazing book.

    THANK YOU for posting it!

    Why are you not excited by it, Jeffrey? Are you considering using any at your parish? (I know you prefer Gregorian notation)

    To me they seem quite amazing.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    I second what Jeff is saying. I have seen many other books of English propers from the 1960s but this one is different. It has English "chant" settings while the others have faux bourdon. I would agree that the latter are not really worth reviving, but this book is far superior. They look very nice and singable - and given that the translation of the propers is not official - useful today.

    Interesting that Fr. Columba Kelly was involved in this project - how different are his Sacred Music Project settings? (I can't seem to download them myself). Seems to be a similar idea, anyway.

    Sam Schmitt
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 994
    A brief glance at these makes me think of the work that came out of The Grail movement (before everyone went nuts). It also makes me sad.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    This is FANTASTIC! Throw out the Anglican Use Gradual, use this or the American Gradual!!

    I'm downloading this before WLP gets antsy.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    I only mean that historically translating the propers in 1964 represented a practice contrary to Sacrosanctum's call for a heighten role for Gregorian. Well, if you want Gregorian, you have to stick with Latin.

    But this is all bygones. The 1965 Missal had English propers, for whatever reason.

    My comment that I'm not excited about it was meant as a historical judgment, not a matter of contemporary practice. Now that is is done, of course the better chants are better chants. This is why I put it up there in the first place.

    It makes me sad too to see these kinds of resources.

    I commented on another collection on a post on NLM last week. A decade worth of work was tossed out in 1970. Talk about demoralizing!

    Again, this is an orphan work, so far as I can tell. If anyone with some proprietary claim (again, not just some copyright troll) has a problem with it, write me.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Thank you! This is remarkable.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,413
    I remember this book well. We used it at St Ambrose' in Houston in the late 60s, at which we had a weekly solemn high mass in English which included sung readings as well as sung everything else except the canon. Excellent choir which did all the heirloom repertory and its modern cousins such as Vaughan Williams, Holst, and even Messiaen. There came a time when we stopped using the propers. I was Anglican at the time and thought dropping the propers was bizarre. I still do. It doesn't make sense. But, then, iconoclasts and change addicts never do. St Ambrose is no longer in the true liturgical forefront at which it was after the council. About ten years ago they built a new church, sold the fine organ to Protestants and bought one of those sets of tuned buzzers that some people call electronic organs.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    The Easter sequence setting and translation is still currently in use.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    is it possible to get these propers in a text only version?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Only by copying and pasting
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    doing a pdf to text conversion now. thnx jt.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    REV. LAWRENCE HEIMAN, C.PP.S., Director

    I think this priest is still alive, no?

    In any event, Fr. Kelley is. Maybe he can help us locate Mr. Abrogast?

    Just some thoughts
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    I was just about to post on that Jeff O, (I somehow missed this thread first time around)

    Father Heiman would LOVE to hear from anyone who is using or considering using these.
    He is at the St Charles Center in Carthagena Ohio.
    I have a fuller address if anyone wants it.

    He was on the board of CMAA for some time, I believe.
    I have long thought that someone who can write ought to pick his brain for his recollections of the musical upheaval of the 60s and 70s, for an article. (IIRC, Annibale Bugnini studied chant under him...)

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    I am considering composing settings for these or some proper texts, perhaps the 1985. Thoughts? These are great for the choir, but not for the contemporary group in our parish (and others) who have nothing for propers... anything would be light years better than this praise music trash that they are doing now! I am going to attempt to build a bridge from the contemporary realm back to the chant version. God help me...
  • Nick BotkinsNick Botkins
    Posts: 31
    Whaa??? Paul Arbogast taught Latin and German at my public High School, he is no longer a priest (married w/ 2 children), I'm not sure he is still alive... He is/was also an excellent organist.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    When I posted this copyright protected thing, I looked and looked for Fr. Abrogast and something suggested to me that he was no longer a priest. I couldn't find anyone willing to claim the thing so I posted it anyway. It is a wonderful document. I didn't know that anyone else was involved, much less a CMAAer.

    So much of our history needs to be written. and so many who have been variously involved over the years need to be re-contacted.
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