EF Low Mass ever preferable to a High Mass?
  • jczarn
    Posts: 65
    Assuming having the resources to do either one well, are there any reasons why a Low Mass would be preferable to a High Mass? I recently attended a Rorate Mass... it was planned as a special event to draw in people from a large area and promoted as such. I was surprised to arrive and learn that it would be a Low Mass. I spoke with the organizer afterward, who said that they usually do a High Mass (or Missa Cantata) and had the ability to do so for this particular Mass, but he chose to do a Low Mass in keeping with the simplicity of the Advent season. My gut feeling is that this sentiment is somewhat misguided; after all, why would the Liber have proper chants specifically for this Mass during Advent if they weren't meant to be used (and why else would it be called a "Rorate" Mass, were the introit not sung)? And, if you have one chance to give someone an experience of the EF Mass, wouldn't you want it to be a High Mass?

    Admittedly I do not have a great background/understanding over the history and purpose of a Low Mass. I suppose I've always operated under the assumption that the High Mass is a fuller/more complete expression celebration that should be preferred whenever possible, but perhaps I'm not thinking about this in the right way? I'd be curious to learn more and hear others thoughts on the matter. Thanks!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'd say no. If you have the needed people, time, and skills to do a high Mass, you ought to. The Low Mass was and is a concession for the impossibility for every Mass to be a high Mass.

    Likewise, the same principal applies to high vs solemn. If for example, you have two capable clerics sitting in choir and the available vestments, there ought to be a Solemn Mass, for the same reason.

    Lastly, I'd take serious issue with the statement about simplicity. Lent and advent have austerity, not simplicity. In reality, this sort of thinking stems from the idea that singing the Mass is just a nice add-in, not something important to the liturgy.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Dr. K discusses these issues in a recent NLM article he wrote:

    http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2016/06/the-problem-of-dominant-low-mass-and.html
    Thanked by 2jczarn moderntrad
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We have had sung Masses with one cantor and one server (Low Mass ceremonies!) During the week (on Feast days) the one, two or three member (male) choir sing on the sanctuary to help out the two or three servers.

    We almost always have a sung Mass when we can, but I know other places prefer the low Mass.

    Anyway I prefer the low Mass when I have to get to work or get back to work after Mass.
    Thanked by 2Vilyanor veromary
  • jczarn
    Posts: 65
    Perhaps I've just had odd experiences, but whenever I've been to an EF low Mass, it ends up being just about as long as our weekly Missa Cantata.
    Thanked by 2CCooze Joseph Mendes
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    If you are trying to get people interested in the EF, probably the worse thing to do is have a Low Mass : all it does is make it impossible for new people to follow along, and just reinforcing the idea that the Vetus Ordo was just the priest mumbling in Latin with his back to the people. If you have a High Mass even people who are not familiar with the EF will still probably be familiar with the words Kyrie Eleison, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei, and will be able to follow along -- and even if they can't follow in a Missal, they can at least be edified by listening to the Chant of the Mass.
  • JCZARN,

    The Church's documents assume that the sung form is always preferable, if not always possible for just cause. Music isn't just an add-on, but it will seem that way if we have a "four hymn sandwich", as it is sometimes called, precisely because this is singing AT Mass, not singing the Mass.

    My EF home shares a building due to the generosity of the pastor and bishop. An easy negative, were it not resisted, would be to argue that the Christmas Mass needs to be a Low Mass in the EF, because the "more important" vernacular Masses need their proper place. Thankfully, that trend is resisted by all the important parties.

    Anecdote: on December 8th, we had 2 EF Masses, one of which was Low Mass w/ Organ, and the other was High Mass. Because I don't usually manage to make Mass on Thursdays, I explained to the congregation beforehand that this was Low Mass w/ Organ, and that I would be playing portions of the Propers and Mass IX, for feasts of Our Lady. One parishioner came up to me afterwards and thanked me profusely --- not for my announcement, but for my music. She was surprised to learn that (contrary to American habit of decades provenance) High Mass is supposed to be normal.

    People can't decide they like something without exposure to it, really, because they can't choose for something they don't know exists.

    Remember the Air Force Motto: AIM HIGH.

    God bless,
    Chris
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Okay.
    Both are respectful, both are awesome.
    If you like silence the Low mass is for you.
    If you like noise then the High mass is mighty fine.
    If you like organ then an organ low mass is out there in some places.

    My friends often like doing low masses at this time of year because then they get the shock of all the splendour of the high mass. Personally, all that is fairly romantic thinking really.

    I do both on the same day often. It often saves up the singers prior to Christmas events. Especially because we do High masses each day of the Christmas season.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Both are both respectful and awesome, but it must also be remembered that the Low Mass is still a concession for when a high Mass isn't possible...
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    but he chose to do a Low Mass in keeping with the simplicity of the Advent season

    No, this is completely wrong. The Solemn Mass is the normative form of the Mass. There are reasons to prefer a low Mass sometimes, for example in deference to people's desire to attend daily Mass, but their need to also get to work on time, but simplicity of the season or the lower rank of the day are not reasons to turn a Solemn Mass into a Low Mass. However, if you have limited resources, it would be legitimate to "spend" them on enhancing the feast days. So you might say, "it's still Advent, we'll have a Low Mass" if you have a limited budget for singers or such, because you're *boosting* Christmas, but not because you're simplifying Advent.
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    There is already a reduction of music anyway during advent because you can't play organ during this time except on gaudete and feasts etc.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    There is already a reduction of music anyway during advent because you can't play organ during this time except on gaudete and feasts etc.


    Not a reduction in sacred music, but a limiting of options. Organ is never required for a high Mass.

    Comparing the stripping of organ to switching a High Mass to a Low Mass is to fundamentally misunderstand the role of both chant and organ in the Catholic Liturgical tradition.
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Ooh burn.
    I'm on your side Ben... I'm saying why go all the way to low mass when you could just reduce the musical options and have the "romanticised" effect of sudden splendour on Christmas. It's not a comparison to high vs low it's a comparison to the idea of simplification and grandeur. It's another angle, another option.

    Anyway I should think that low mass would give the choir time to learn the music if they have a huge Christmas I doubt it's a great liturgical decision though.

    Why?
    Because advent is a time of joyful waiting. Not really of sorrow...
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Some worshippers prefer low mass and actually I know priests who are more comfortable with low mass. But that's due to familiarity not due to romantic ideals.

    I know organ is not compulsory for high mass... but it can be a great thing to bring in after advent if it is that you want to emphasise simplicity during advent and then grandeur after. You don't have to resort to changing the whole mass around this idea. There is simplification already put into place!
    I know some people who don't do any polyphonic motets during advent and that can be nice because then you get lots of chant and it is really nice. But would I call that simplified? No, just not as much going on and a little more silence which doesn't hurt anyone especially when you're rehearsing your choir for the huge Christmas octave.

    Appropriate simplification might be to not hand out biscuits with tea after masses on non feast days during advent. Or not contributing to the vast number of crazy over the top parties that go on around this time of year and WAIT til Christmas actually starts.

    The liturgy is important during this time because it tells the how and the why for Christmas. It is the part that gives us reason for waiting. It's already going to get grandeur when you bring back the organ and you add Christmas carols to the mix of options.

    Low mass is always a great option but I don't think the reason of simplification is a great one in this instance because I actually find low mass to require complex contemplative prayer from the congregation, and also a more switched on congregation.

    I pray that this isn't nit picked with a fine tooth comb...
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Power bar versus a standard meal.
  • [purple] Please take note: in Australian parishes, the Knights of Columbus have biscuits and tea fundraisers after Mass. [off]

    Thanked by 1veromary
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    In America, people are zooming away from the parking lot in their automobiles before the final hymn ends. Edith Wharton understood Americans well. She ends the fourth paragraph of "Age of Innocence" with: "It was one of the great livery-stableman’s most masterly intuitions to have discovered that Americans want to get away from amusement even more quickly than they want to get to it." And church even more than amusements.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Olivier
  • There is a reason the Low Mass is also called a "Privated" Mass - not because it can be said when alone, but because it is lacking... The, largely, Low Mass culture of the US before the council has made it nearly impossible for the average parish to bring back the sung propers unless within the context of the TLM. Even the DM of the Cathedral in our Diocese gets odd looks from his choir members for wanting to do just a Communio in addition to the hymn... "Why would you want to do that??"

    We have a daily Missa Cantata in our Parish: 1-3 singers, 2 servers, no incense. It works just fine. It seems silly to forgo a Sung Mass if you have someone in the general area who can sing... right?
  • She was surprised to learn that (contrary to American habit of decades provenance) High Mass is supposed to be normal.


    You do know that prior to just about ten year you were born the only low Masses in the average US parish were on Sunday morning, prior to and following the high Mass of the day. Right? Daily and Funeral masses were also high Masses, too.

    What's the source of this statement as well, please?

    The, largely, Low Mass culture of the US before the council has made it nearly impossible for the average parish to bring back the sung propers unless within the context of the TLM.


    [Added: Obviously, I came from the low church world in which the High mass was in reality a sung low mass though we sang Gregorian Chant, an occasional Ambrosian Chant and the Propers without fail. Do I stand corrected?]
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    @noel: for what it's worth, in the late '50's/early '60's my parish had a daily 6AM LOW Mass and a daily 9AM (or so) HIGH Mass. The 9A Mass was attended by the school chilluns and sung by them (as a congregation). Many of those Masses were Requiem Masses (commemoratives)--a practice which has apparently been proscribed.

    But there were regularly celebrated Low Masses, too.
  • Noel,

    Your comment is addressed to Moderntrad, but I want to put in an oar here. The "evidence" is anecdotal, I'm afraid. Nearly everyone I talk to, who remembers the "old days", confirms the same situation -- with noteworthy exceptions.

    a) President Kennedy's Requiem
    b) My mother-in-law's testimony
    c) Jeff Morse's testimony - how did he put it? There wasn't much distance between Bring flowers of the rarest and On Eagle's Wings.
    d) Thomas Day's book, Why Catholics can't Sing
    e) The testimony of attendance at our Sunday Low Mass.
    f) The vehement testimony of a woman I know who calls herself a "bossy Portuguesa", and her personal loathing of the High Mass.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    To some extent, it depended on *where* - for example, Irish-dominated parishes in the Northeast versus German-dominated parishes in the Midwest.

    Also, daily requiems could be in the form of a Missa Cantata for which the organist received part of the stipend, but an actual solemn high mass would require more clerics to pull off.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    Many years ago I was asked to help with the music for a once-a-month high Mass in the old rite. A substantial crowd of people came to attend the Mass they grew up with. They were disappointed, because they expected a dialogue Mass, in which they would recite many of the texts in Latin. I would say that it took a year for people to come to terms with the high Mass. I still noticed on occasion a member of the congregation with a hand missal, reciting the Latin texts soto voce while the priest sang them. Things have improved in this respect.
  • Noel,

    Add Dr. Mahrt's testimony to my evidence list.
    Thanked by 1moderntrad
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    I agree with the contra comments, especially Jahaza. I would say the Mass at dawn in between two solemn Masses is it. And tomjaw’s simplex Missa Cantata is the way it was before they started aping Solemn Mass.
  • CGZ - I doubt that you understood M's posting.