Wedding Music
  • jdamico30
    Posts: 19
    I have 2 weddings this Saturday. The second one consists of two older people getting married...the groom being a "prominent" figure in the Parish. I was what it felt like ambushed this Sunday after mass. They walked up to me with a program for their wedding. Keep in mind I have written up a nice letter of guidelines for music during the Liturgy with a whole hymn selection sheet on the other side. They hand me the program, clearly already professionally printed up. I have not seen this program until now. They listed a song titled "Here We Stand" by T Carter for their lighting of the unity candle which isn't really a song of any Liturgical meaning even though I'm sure their thought is "but it mentions God." My preference is to NOT have a hymn during this action as it takes all but 10 seconds and the Liturgy needs to flow from one action to the other. For communion they have the Ave Maria, which again in my opinion should not be here as it is not a eucharistic hymn, but a hymn devoted to the Blessed Mother. At the end they have "Have I told You Lately" by Van Morrison but they want it in the style that Rod Stewart sings it in.

    So many problems with this program. Clearly they ignored the guidelines given to them, and did not follow the hymn selection sheet. My hands are tied unfortunately as I was told by one of the parochial vicars that we have no choice because of who it is that is being married and also because the Administrator of the Parish is presiding. He said I should still say something to him because he completely agrees with my concerns about the choices of music...but our hands are tied because of who the groom is. You can't make this stuff up people.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    ". . . we have no choice because of who it is that is being married and also because the Administrator of the Parish is presiding."

    That is not true, of course. Btw, who is playing (what instrument) and who is singing?

    If these are songs that you don't know, if the choice is to provide it, the couple take the risk of getting what they asked for. That doesn't mean to trash the songs, but one could make a significant move in execution in reducing the inappropriate taste factor.
    Thanked by 2canadash CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    If you decide to play the wedding, find out what a last-minute substitute organist would charge for a wedding with such short notice, and charge that. After all, you'll have extra work preparing these pieces that you've never performed or never heard of. It's too bad they didn't consult you in advance, etc.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • jdamico30
    Posts: 19
    That is not true, of course.


    That is actually VERY true.

    I am playing the organ and also singing.

    And there is no choice to provide it, its mandatory. When I tell people these things they can't believe it...but this parish is a tough place to be in. It is a very wealthy parish, and the people are the type that get what they want no matter what. They have run out 3 pastors within the past 5 years because they didn't get what they wanted. Luckily they all love me and what I do. I have completely rebuilt the music program and they have an actual choir now that sounds good as opposed to what they were stuck with in the past.

    If you decide to play the wedding, find out what a last-minute substitute organist would charge for a wedding with such short notice, and charge that. After all, you'll have extra work preparing these pieces that you've never performed or never heard of. It's too bad they didn't consult you in advance, etc.


    My fee is set through the church. I cannot control that. Also, they are supposed to consult me in advance as outlined on the guidelines I created...which were approved by the Pastor.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I could mention my 5,000 reasons why I don't do weddings and contract them out. LOL. My guess is that in this situation, you may have to hold your nose and get through it. Fortunately, weddings don't last very long. I wouldn't jeopardize your position and accomplishments over one crappy wedding.
    Thanked by 2Ben PaxMelodious
  • jdamico30
    Posts: 19
    Lol! I haven't met one organist who likes weddings...and my plan was just that, to get through it. I have no intentions of jeopardizing my position. It would just be nice if the clergy would grow a pair. :-)
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Understand. I was just saying this morning that half the priests I know need a good slap. They're spoiled, if not arrogant. I have noticed, too, that they are 9 to 5 corporate types who are not killing themselves working. Fortunately, we still have some of the old-timey priests who have vocations, not jobs. I surely give thanks for them.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    On the positive side, is there any room in the program for you to perhaps _add_ a little sacred music?
    Thanked by 3CharlesW JL CCooze
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Why do (some) Catholics think that Unity candles are okay? Most of all, why do (some?) priests allow them?

    Thankfully, they aren't allowed at my parish.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen eft94530
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    By the way, my sister talked (casually) with me and I helped her to choose her wedding music. Then she said she didn't think she needed to meet with the organist and myself about the music because she "already knew what she wanted," and sure, I had helped her to get there (even though she and her fiancé changed some stuff on their own).

    It took a bit, but I made her come around, and even talked to the organist ahead of time about some things that (my sister wanted, but wouldn't believe) wouldn't quite work. I also told her that she had to. It's not only in the paperwork, but a matter of professional courtesy.

    We got everything straightened out (it's for an EF Nuptial Mass, and so wasn't all that bad, but she isn't exactly musical & there was just some music placement and having a certain Pachelbel tune from Moms til the bride was overkill), but she did think that she should be able to just make up a program with what she had decided would be perfect and forego the meeting. Hopefully she's glad she didn't (*read: I wouldn't let her*).

    These types of thing should be more strictly applied, and not just a "you should meet with the organist/cantor at some point before your wedding."
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    What is a unity candle?

    I can't find any mention of it in Fortescue, or Elliot.
    Thanked by 6mmeladirectress CharlesW CCooze canadash Ben JL
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    >> For communion they have the Ave Maria, which again in my opinion should not be here as it is not a eucharistic hymn, but a hymn devoted to the Blessed Mother.

    maybe it will give you some consolation to remember St Ignatius, St John Eudes, St Louis de Montfort, St Bernadette, and even Pope Francis, saying that Our Lord and His Mother 'are inseparable'.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    That is actually VERY true.

    That is actually very NOT true.

    All it takes is spine and a theologically wholesome mind.
    Both of which seem not to be present - as in totally absent.
    You have been put in a (probably calculated) devilishly cruel position.

    You might retain a substitute.

    If this bodes what is in store for you as a modus operandi of the Administrator you might be looking elsewhere. I would.
    Thanked by 2CCooze Ben
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    At the end they have "Have I told You Lately" by Van Morrison but they want it in the style that Rod Stewart sings it in.


    I would not be able to do this regardless of how much one paid or threatened me. I just could not sing in this style. For goodness sake... You are a church musician not a cover band. This is just so bizarre.

    Thanked by 5CCooze M. Jackson Osborn Spriggo CHGiffen jdamico30
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    You must surely be aware that this will set a precedent, and that future couples will be able to (and will) say that 'Mr Prominent' had it at his wedding. Also, that The Administrator obviously considers 'your' guidelines to be a worthless piece of paper, and that he expects that you become as unprincipled as he is. This is not over. It is just beginning. This sort of thing never stops once it has begun.
    Thanked by 2eft94530 rich_enough
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    I suspect it's been around for a while there.

    Hence my suggestion for focusing on delivery. LIke: render the music on the organ, in a stately but meditative way....

    Delivery can transform a song, duh. The A-list arrangers (they had a B-list and a C-list) on "Glee" artfully showed this off. Examples within the pop genre:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvt1DFkeoDI

    Also this, which Glee used without initially attributing it to unaffiliated arranger:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGlqcJ9OX3M
    Thanked by 2Spriggo CHGiffen
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Remember: those who are ignorant aren't bound by knowledge they don't have. We (musicians) who have the knowledge and the training, are.
  • Reval
    Posts: 186
    At the end they have "Have I told You Lately" by Van Morrison but they want it in the style that Rod Stewart sings it in.


    Rod Stewart, accompanied by...church organ? Is it possible they were joking? I would consider pointing out to them that this is not going to sound like they think it's going to. I have so much sympathy for you, this is the reason I gave up playing weddings with my string group. So we didn't have to arrange pop songs, soundtrack music, etc. for a string duo or trio.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    whT is a unity candle? another innovation absorbed by the NO.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    As for "Have I Told You Lately", the vocals aren't very dissimilar. Taking the parishioner at his word, he's asking for the pop song originally performed by this artist:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFF1wJN75Z0 (piano, strings, bass, guitar; piano solo)
    in an arrangement similar to that of this artist:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKOkUWjC0JU (bass, percussion, strings, piano; guitar solo)
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    ;)
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    2448 x 2448 - 1M
    Thanked by 9Andrew_Malton MarkS matthewj barreltone Liam Ben jdamico30 CHGiffen canadash
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    CCooze wins the internet today.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    (insert Adam Wood winning meme here)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    (insert Adam Wood winning meme here)

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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    And some poor soul has to live with this guy. LOL

    The picture is funny. ;-)
  • jdamico30
    Posts: 19
    The Administrator apologized to me as I spoke to him about the situation...AGREED with me, yet subtly suggested I still must do it. I also pointed out to this couple that it will NOT sound like they imagined it, as it will be on a pipe organ...but alas nothing has changed and I am stuck with this nonsense tomorrow. So, I will play it the way I want to play it..too bad!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Pull on the tremolo, put a few silent movie chords and interludes in it, and have a good time.
    Thanked by 2Liam chonak
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Well, it's nice that the Administrator apologised. Too bad he is in such shivering awe of Mr Prominent Member. People like this man really are long overdue a good strong dose of comeuppance. Your predicament is loathsome to all of us. Godspeed!
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    While regrettably there may be nothing that could have been done, perhaps there are a few things we can all insist upon (or at least "strongly encourage," depending on your pastor) being cleaned up with the 2nd edition of the Order of Celebrating Matrimony now in optional use and in mandatory use effective December 30:
    ...the groom being a "prominent" figure in the Parish.

    From the Praenotanda of the Order of Celebrating Matrimony (2nd edition that just came out):
    31. The festive character of the celebration of Marriage should be suitably expressed even in the manner of decorating the church. Nevertheless, local Ordinaries are to vigilant that, apart from the honors due to civil authorities in keeping with the norm of liturgical laws, no favoritism be shown to private persons or classes of persons (emphasis mine).

    So if something is not allowed for anyone else, it should not be allowed even for this "prominent" parish figure, and your hands should not be tied.

    Re: the Unity Candle - why have we been allowing them in the first place? As I understand it, it became popular when seen in a 1980s soap opera, although apparently it had started to be seen in the 1970s. In any event it's a secular intrusion that has no place in the Catholic liturgy.
    "No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority (Sacrosanctum concilium 22.3)."
    Or, to put it as my pastor does, we do what Holy Mother Church asks us to do, nothing more, and nothing less. Perhaps it can be suggested that the Unity Candle be done at the couple's reception.

    And in regard to devotional acts to the Blessed Virgin during the liturgy (from the Directory On Popular Piety and the Liturgy):
    13. The objective difference between pious exercises and devotional practices should always be clear in expressions of worship. Hence, the formulae proper to pious exercises should not be commingled with the liturgical actions. Acts of devotion and piety are external to the celebration of the Holy Eucharist, and of the other sacraments.

    On the one hand, a superimposing of pious and devotional practices on the Liturgy so as to differentiate their language, rhythm, course, and theological emphasis from those of the corresponding liturgical action, must be avoided, while any form of competition with or opposition to the liturgical actions, where such exists, must also be resolved. Thus, precedence must always be given to Sunday, Solemnities, and to the liturgical seasons and days.

    Since, on the other, pious practices must conserve their proper style, simplicity and language, attempts to impose forms of "liturgical celebration" on them are always to be avoided.

    So, while most often done with the best of intentions, this is another thing that should be encouraged to be done at another time outside of the wedding itself.

    All this said, I understand, though, that what is stated in Church law and what is done in practice are sometimes two different things, unfortunately.
    Thanked by 3jdamico30 M. Jackson Osborn CCooze
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Remember: those who are ignorant aren't bound by knowledge they don't have.

    I am putting this on a post-it and sticking it to the front of my Driver Licence.

    And I am now comforting myself with "Ignorance is a virtue".
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Eft,

    Is there any point in remarking that the proper analogy is between a well-formed Catholic and a qualified driver?
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