Sing the psalm verses (was: Just a little rant)
  • jdamico30
    Posts: 19
    As the Music Director I decide to have a meeting with my entire music ministry to make sure everyone is on the same page and should be following proper Liturgical instruction. My children's choir director always has the lector read the verses for the psalm, and they sing the response between. I told her that she needs to start singing the entire psalm, which includes the verses. She said "yuck, I can't stand chant, it's so shrilly to my ears" and I replied "well chant is the music of the Church and if you can't stand it so much you probably shouldn't be in music ministry." She has yet to follow my directions. She has been running it for 40 years now and has been doing the same nonsense since she started. It's been stale and she seems resistant to all direction from myself and even the clergy. Hard to direct people when they don't listen to direction!
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    Dismiss her...quickly. Live through the trauma and go on.
    Thanked by 4janetgorbitz M. Jackson Osborn maestrodicapella Casavant Organist
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    .
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    You said "start singing the entire psalm" and she said "...chant, it sounds..shrill". But you didn't mention chant.

    What are they singing for the Response now?

    What did you ask for, and what did she assume, for the verses?

    Did you ask for specific settings of the psalms?

    In my experience some people say "shrill to my ears" or "too high pitched" to refer to unfamiliar styles of music with a soprano (or violin) solo line. (Usually nonmusicians though : and yet she is a choir leader?). What does she think "chant" is and what kind of shrill singing does she associate with psalmody?

    There seems to be a disconnect here.
    Thanked by 5KyleM18 Casavant Organist ClergetKubisz CHGiffen Elmar
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Andrew,

    By "shrill" she appears to mean "like my unmusical maiden aunt in a full-throated rant".
    How "high" the pitch is doesn't matter.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    As Kevin said, "dismiss her quickly;" however, I am going to venture to guess that you probably don't have this kind of authority?

    If you don't have the authority to dismiss her, and your pastor is not willing to do so, then in my opinion, just leave her alone and wash your hands of it. You are not going to change someone who has been doing this without change for 40 years and it is not worth the stress.
    Thanked by 4maestrodicapella CharlesW CHGiffen Elmar
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Tell her that if chant sounds "shrilly" that she is doing it very, very wrong.
    Thanked by 5canadash Casavant Organist CCooze Jes CHGiffen
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    I agree with @ryand -- explain that if someone is chanting in a shrill manner, that they are simply doing a bad job of singing. That has to do with one person's poor singing, not chant as a genre. Try to demonstrate a bit yourself, perhaps to a Meinrad tone. I don't understand how someone could use the word "shrill" to describe that. People be crazy...
    Thanked by 3Casavant Organist CCooze CHGiffen
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    If you don't have the authority to dismiss her, and your pastor is not willing to do so, then in my opinion, just leave her alone and wash your hands of it. You are not going to change someone who has been doing this without change for 40 years and it is not worth the stress.


    But if you are the director, i.e. her direct supervisor, and she blatantly disobeys your order, then it's insubordination, and she should be dismissed. If the pastor won't agree to it, you may have a bigger problem on your hands: a sacred cow, as Noel would put it.
    Thanked by 4canadash M. Jackson Osborn Casavant Organist CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    .
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    You have to decide if this battle is worth fighting. Unless, the pastor backs you, you will get nowhere with it.
    Thanked by 4canadash Casavant Organist CHGiffen Elmar
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    If you as the Music Director don't have authority to make decisions like how one should sing the Responsorial Psalm, I don't see much point in having a Music Director in the first place. It's a symptom of a common attitude that the musicians for each Mass get to choose everything. They somehow need to be made aware that they report to you. This should have been communicated to them already by the pastor when you started. If not, now's the time. Or get out if he won't back you, because it creates the potential for an uprising.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Catholic pastors often reserve the right to be the only pope in the parish...
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    it creates the potential for an uprising.


    Well... yes....

    She has been running it for 40 years now and has been doing the same nonsense since she started.


    Is it surprising that if you let someone go after FORTY YEARS there will be an uprising. This lady probably has a lot of clout in the parish. Who knows who she influences? I have a feeling this is an impossible situation.
    Thanked by 1Felipe Gasper
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    You could try the Snow White method - you know, poison ;-)
    Thanked by 3Casavant Organist canadash M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    It seems to me that you need to have (very!) serious talk with your pastor about whether and how far he is willing to be 'behind you', what musical regimen in the parish he is willing to stand up for, and!, just who is The Parish Musical Director. The outcome of this meeting, in which this lady will be a prominent (but not the sole) subject of discussion should indicate whether or not you really are The Musical Director, and whether you wish to continue being whatever it is that you actually are. It seems to me insufferable that this lady should get off scot free with such brazen contempt of your direction and authority. Sacred cow or not, she is long overdue some serious comeuppance. You need to talk to the pastor about it soon.
    Thanked by 2tsoapm CHGiffen
  • JesJes
    Posts: 576
    Tell her if she doesn't want to chant it that she could do the altenative and write out verses with individual melodies... Her response may just be "oh, well, chant it is then."
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    I've never heard the term 'shrilly' but could it be that this lady is trying to pitch the chant too high? Or has heard other people doing so?
    Sometimes singers misinterpret notation with a C clef. Perhaps some advice on a more suitable pitch to chant the psalm verses might help.
    Just a thought
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    If she's been there 40 years and has done the same nonsense all this time, what's to make you think she'll listen to you or anyone else now? Perhaps the best way may be for you (hopefully with your pastor's backing) to request her retirement or resignation - maybe even negotiate a date for it to take effect (e.g., December 31, so that the choir is not left in a lurch for Christmas). That way you can say it was done (somewhat) voluntarily, you have time to hire a replacement for a smooth transition if you don't take it on yourself, and she can receive a proper send-off her ego would seem to desire. Try to frame it as an opportunity for thanks to her for 4 decades of service to the Church (that is an accomplishment worth noting, whether or not it has been done well).

    Regardless of whether or not this is possible, perhaps there is one or more advanced chorister(s) in there who would be willing to take on the challenge. Train him/her/them yourself - you'd probably have to, anyway, given the director's refusals. And then instruct your director that you have chorister(s) ready and willing to sing the Psalm so she doesn't have to worry about doing it herself. Then she can hear how chant isn't "shrill" when done properly.

    Document it all, so that if you have to go to the pastor with an insubordination case, you have it all in writing. And if there is an uprising, so be it. Jesus himself was known to cause an uprising or two.
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