Word order (CRCCM contest)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    PTB has the announcement of the cathedral directors' composition contest for an Introit and Communio for ordinations.
    My question is: can word order be altered in an antiphon? Also, given the "festal" occasion, clauses repeated?

    The Entrance Antiphon with psalm verses is to be set for congregation, choir and organ in a responsorial style with optional independent instrumental parts [preferably brass quintet or quartet & timpani]. Ideally the antiphon is set for congregational singing with the psalm verses for choir and or a cantor. Solo or choral verses would be welcome. An optional paschal time “Alleluia” at the end of the antiphon must be included.


    The Introit antiphon-
    ENTRANCE ANTIPHON [For the Common of Pastors] 3 Daniel 3:84, 87
    Priests of God, bless the Lord; praise the Lord, all who are holy and humble of heart (E.T. alleluia).

    revised version....
    Priests of God, bless the Lord; all who are holy and humble of heart, praise the Lord (alleluia.)
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,086
    FWIW, merely as background, here's the context from the Vulgate:

    84: benedicite sacerdotes Domini Domino laudate et superexaltate eum in saecula

    87: benedicite sancti et humiles corde Domino laudate et superexaltate eum in saecula
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Charles,

    I would think, since you're setting the words "humble of heart" with a brass quintet and tympani that "praise the Lord" would make more sense to finish the text.

    Tympani and brass are known for many things, but humility isn't (ordinarily) what first comes to mind.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Chris, the option towards brass and tympani is just that, an option. Based upon your take, perhaps I should think of spoons, washboards and, of course, ukeleles?
    I'm not necessarily intending to set these, however I would like advice that is appropriate to liturgical propriety and proper usage, thanks.
    FritzLiam, thanks. I'll have to reference from whence the translation cometh.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Charles,

    I misunderstood, I guess.

    I can't see someone having an objection to switching the word order, given that an option includes brass and tympani, and the word "hearts" is a weaker word to end on than the expression "praise the Lord".

    Is that more clearly focused on your question.



  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    If strategic changing of word is permittee, as I hope it could be, then could we please return to "... our Lord, Jesus Christ" in place of ",,, Jesus Christ, our Lord" in this newfangled ICEL "Gloria"! Really! Setting the new text to any older polyphony or most especially Gregorian and Ambrosian chant is impossible with that word order. I was going to set the new ICEL text to the Ambosian "Gloria", until I hit that long melisma on "Lord" rather than "Christ". As much better as most of the ICEL translation is now - at least for speaking - when it comes to music it's a waste. Let's just sing the Latin and be done with it.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    The actual introit is "Sacerdotes Dei", and the actual proper text is a little "tweaked" from what one would find in the book of Daniel, if I recall correctly. I ran into this a couple weeks ago while getting together a Spanish translation of the antiphon.

    Also, glad to see this: wonderful that CRCCM is doing this!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    I hope CRCCM has a web page somewhere to answer good questions like the ones melo posed.

    Just to speculate, might there be conditions arising from the USCCB liturgy committee, to which the setting would presumably be submitted for approval after the contest?

    As a suggestion on my part, it could work well to keep the antiphon 100% intact, and only take (minor) liberties in a coda after the last normal occurrence of the antiphon.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,189
    To save others from having to hunt for the link to the contest announcement, here it is. The web page gives the text as the first one Melo cites. I would hesitate to monkey with it and rearrange it, even though the revised version might work better as music (or musical theatre?).
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 775
    Let us pause to commend the CRCCM for promoting the musical consideration of Mass Propers in our time, though this may be more theoretical than practical, as no specific cathedral is involved (as far as I can tell). We might also sigh resignedly at the brass and timpani option, a bow to the modern conceit that, by and large, "festive" equals "noisy". Hard to envision such an approach as springing organically from the chant.

    As for word order, I would ask the organizers how flexible you can be. When it comes to textual integrity, minor Propers seem subject to far less scrutiny than Chants between the Readings.

    And while you're at it, try to clarify the Gloria Patri at the end of the Entrance verses, which is curiously different than for the Communion (and probably just wrong).
    Thanked by 2BruceL CHGiffen
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    ??? I mean, if you're going to bust out brass, I'd say a nuptial Mass or ordination is about the best occasion. Also, I know a number of places used the Chrism Mass ones this past year. Let's not let the "perfect" be the enemy of the good.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,482
    Its already over.
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