Choral Aesthesis: Musical Craftsmanship vs. Musical Entertainment in Liturgical Music
  • This thread may attract a wild variety of comments from a wild variety of perspectives, tastes, and musical philosophy. That's alright. I don't see anything within reason that is even tangentially germane to be 'Off Topic'. Too, many of us, not just me, wrestle with these questions often in that work of service to God, his People, and the Liturgy that is our calling, our vocation. But putting them into some systematic form is challenging and fraught with institutional hurdles that seem to defy, if not deliberately to prevent, resolution. Nor, though, do we wish to overlook that there are many situations in which we are blessed by our superiors and by people who are appreciative. So -

    It has occurred to me in the last few weeks that not much has been said about aesthesis in sacred choral works as they apply to liturgical propriety. More specifically, about the underlying philosophies (there may be a better term) of sacred choral music throughout liturgical history, how and when they may differ, and what, if any, are the timeless, unchanging, characteristics of the same. There are, I believe, compelling rationales and fundamental liturgical principles behind the Church's continued championing of our repertory of historical liturgical chant (calling it 'Gregorian' is increasingly meaningless and inaccurate), and of our repertory of works from the era of the great polyphonists, and of their modern day followers. By aisthesis the Greeks understood 'mental feeling', which extends logically to 'mental understanding'. This is at the root of any and all that we mean when we refer to aesthetics. Aesthetics, as some will be aware, is the target of some abuse by a certain milieu of seemingly insensitive persons, especially those who have little appreciation for what may be seen as demanding their respect in a culture which places little value on matters of 'mental feeling' with regard to what is, objectively, beautiful. Indeed, it would seem that disparagement of the objectively beautiful, of the 'aesthetic' dimension, which is, inevitably, a spiritual dimension, in worship is almost de riguer amongst certain types.

    These thoughts were spurred in recent weeks as I studied some old scores, revisited the works of the polyphonic age. What jumped out at me as never before was not the inherent beauty of the music qua music, but of the incredible craftsmanship and the extraordinary musical gifts and conscience which went into the making of it. We all know these things, of course, so this is hardly a great revelation; but the difference of motivation, of mental feeling, of pure , 'scientific' craftsmanship that distinguishes this music from that of later ages presented itself to me as never before. There is a stark difference of motivation, art (kunst), approach, purpose, and objective spirit between the polyphonists and their modern heirs, and those who wrote the majority of church music in the intervening periods. (Indeed, I have often taught that men such as Taverner were the Bruckners of their age - and it might even be argued that their aisthesis, their kunst, their craft, was a superior and more intellectually honest one!) Chief amongst the differences is the development of musical genres (including sacred ones) which appeal not to aisthesis but, primarily, to the emotions of the listeners whom we do not wish to burden (or bore) with the higher forms of liturgical musical craftsmanship which was apparently quite enjoyed and comprehended by the audiences who first heard them. We have debased music. And, we have, inherently and concomitantly debased the listeners. They must now be entertained with music that has a 'tune' and a 'beat', and are not (by too, too, many musicians and clerics) suffered to be aedified by genuine and pure aisthesis and musical science of the caliber it takes to produce, say, Byrd's Salve Regina a 5, or RVW's G-minor mass. Perhaps this introduction could be summed up as questioning the fundamental difference between the enjoyment of 'music' and the comprehension of 'a work of music', music as craft, kunst, artifice. I believe that the difference between the listeners of today and those of the age of the polyphonists (not to mention their notions of what was and was not 'sacred' - certainly what was and was not worthy) is vast.

    Where once what was offered to God was a great 'work of architecture', the rarest frankincense, the most finely made vestments, the most exquisitely crafted examples of musical science, all of which had conveyed aisthesis, now, all (most of the time) is foreign to the hands of any master craftsman, be he or she an architect, vestment maker, or musician.

    Am I tilting at windmills? Or are people today deliberately being made 'non-aesthetic', (mentally senseless) and sold a 'bill of goods'?

    (I look forward to your re-inforcements and illuminations, as well as your contradictions and challenges. Just try to be objective and avoid highly subjective statements when speaking favourably or not about this or that example.)
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Off the top of my head, I can tell you that the pattern in great choral music of the past is that each work has compositional integrity and achieves a certain level of sophistication that represents the highest quality of musical craftsmanship. Dr. William Mahrt describes this as having "goodness of form." Even modern works by Lauridsen or Rutter, for example, exhibit this quality of craftsmanship; "O Magnum Mysterium" and "Candlelight Carol" come to mind.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    OK, let's have some fun!

    I believe that the difference between the listeners of today and those of the age of the polyphonists (not to mention their notions of what was and was not 'sacred') is vast.


    I respectfully suggest that you cannot support that contention, at least if you believe that human nature is constant. You propose entropy instead of stability, but if that were the case, then there would be zero Great Artists in the 20th/21st centuries.

    That said, I think that the constant consists of this: there will always be audiences (and clergy) who demand mediocre or second-rate 'art' because "raising the mind" is difficult. That's why chilluns don't like math. And there will always be musicians who give them what they want--perhaps because the 'musicians' are not well-educated, or perhaps because the musicians have to have an income.

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Dad,

    I can defend Jackson's statement.

    Indeed human nature does not and can not change, but the preparation of each individual is unique. The training of modern people (while not exclusive to modernity) is to accept mediocrity and call it excellence, to shun the excellent as "artsy" or "show-off" or something similar. The ear still has all the parts, but the ability to hear is impaired.

    Furthermore, while there are still sane people in the world (present company probably excepted) who wish to pursue the good, the true and the beautiful, increasingly the knowledge of what is good, true and beautiful is obscured, and thus the ability to pass on that knowledge further impaired.

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    To get a little balance here, we have to recognize that the Treasury of the Church to which we are indebted is the good stuff that was able to survive for centuries. We'll never know about the multitude of junk that got discarded along the way.

    That said, we have an especially short-term culture right now, where anything more than a year old is uninteresting. And for the first time in history, it's possible for EVERYBODY to be a publisher, whether they have skill or not, and instantly reach an audience around the globe. That can be glorious, but it's also a two-edged sword.

    We can only hope that this communication will help us to find the good stuff quicker, discard the bad stuff quicker, and improve our civilization. I see some wonderful bright spots, but they seem overwhelmed by media and the popular culture. Maybe it's always been thus.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I don't think the art of the writers of polyphony was any more pure, noble, or finely crafted than that of Tournemire. Granted, you may have to work at liking Tournemire. If you have a liking for polyphony, that is subjective and based on preference. It isn't any "higher" art because it was written earlier. The Franck Psalm 150 is as great an act of worship as a work of Palestrina. Franck was himself a genuine Catholic mystic and worked from a faith as genuine and sincere as any of the chant or polyphony era writers.

    There is a tendency of neo-baroque-ies and those looking back to a "golden age" to equate anything smacking of emotion as inferior. Looking back with 21st-century perspectives and attitudes makes it too easy to dismiss the emotional effect polyphony had on listeners in the time when it was written. That effect was real and some of those early writers were, in essence, the rock stars of their times.

    Hindsight is a nice luxury to have. As CarlD referenced, we don't know about the inferior stuff the polyphonists wrote that was trashed along the way. Was there also bad chant? How would we know?
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Yes, Chris--but there's another implication here, too: MJO is suggesting that congregations of the (say) 3rd through 19th centuries were flocking to 'high art' works/churches/Masses. I doubt it. Remember, human nature doesn't change--and how far could those peasants go to hear JSBach, by the way?

    Carl has a solid argument (which showed up as I am typing this.) That is, what "junk" do we NOT know about? Prolly tons.

    I'm not Pollyanna; I was at the local symphony's production of Verdi's Requiem last Sunday afternoon, which played to about half a house in a metro area of about 1.25 million people. I, too, bemoan the culture and murmur 'o tempora, o mores' every day.

    But it's impossible to believe that Camelot, the Bright Shining Moment, every really existed after Eden.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Am I tilting at windmills? Or are people today deliberately being made 'non-aesthetic', (mentally senseless) and sold a 'bill of goods'?

    Yes, yes and yes.......wait.......oh noooooooo!!!
    One more question out of MJO's to be factored in: Who are "people today?" Even within a nebulous umbrella of "westernized" folks are a myriad of stratas from the least to the best of innumerable categories. For every rapper pouring Rothschild on a cell phone there's a nascent genius such as the creator of "Hamilton." And if he wins 12 Tony's there's still gonna be decriers here dubbing him the blasphemer of Broadway tradition.

    I don't regard Jackson's assertions as being grounded within any golden age, that's a faux shibboleth IMO. Byrd or Mozart's "Ave Verum" is no more golden than Rach's "Bogoriditze" from a whole other tradition. Thus the cornucopia is rife and abundant with everyone from Leonin to LaRocca. But it is almost a fool's errand when trying to qualify an art form that also relies upon quantity for its livelihood.

    For a more dialectical treatment of this subject I remember that "Sacred Music" had a transcription of (Abp?) Patriarch Hilarion of Moscow's famed address at BRomeSchool/CUA of a few years back.
  • It is not my intent to write a defense or a rebuttal of those comments which contest anything I proposed. Agreement would of course be nice, but I don't expect it. It seemed to me that there is much overlooked substance and depth to this subject which it might prove profitable soberly to discuss.

    Charles, I would certainly agree with you about Tournemire. I believe that I made it clear that I was referencing the polyphonists and their modern heirs.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Sorry, if I misunderstood.
  • Sorry...

    Don't be sorry.
    I don't know that you did.
    The conversation is what is important.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Was there also bad chant? How would we know?


    Some would argue that the Pustet editions of the chant are inferior. But's that's an edition of chant. Don't know if that counts as chant per se.

    The conversation is what is important.


    Dialetic, okay. As long as the dialetic doesn't become material. Then we're taking the step from Hegel to Marx. So yeah, keep the discussion immaterial.

  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I wonder if MJO is engaging in what I have dubbed "Aspirational Historiography" -- writing our own ideals into how we read the past.

    I am not qualified to pronounce on whether or not MJO's ideas about how things were in the past are accurate, or merely aspirational. I do, however, agree with his aspirations in relationship to the art and craft of sacred music.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Thank you, Adam -

    Do note: I have no illusions about the quality of music in any past times. We all must realise that the people who heard Gombert, et al., just like the people who hear Howells, et al., were/are, relative to the population, very few. Too, it is a given that performance standards varied, most likely, as much as they do today. These things, I should think would be givens and hardly merit stressing in a discussion such as this.

    What I do believe is a fundamental difference between the age of the polyphonists and ours is/was the cultivation of mastery of musical craft in what was heard by those who heard it. As I tried to make clear up above, there was, certainly, the presence of relatively inferior composers. But this inferiority was one of somewhat less skillful mastery of the musical craft, rather than a genre of music (such as proliferates today) which belonged just about anywhere than at mass. In other words, the village waits would not have played at mass at Canterbury Cathedral, nor street music idioms turned into renaissance 'sacro-pop', nor their equivalents any where else.

    Further, we know that royal, princely, and lesser aristocratic personages vied with one another in the employment of those composers most skilled in musical craftsmanship, employment of the most talented singers (who, often, were even kidnapped!), & cet. Today, such an interest in the important matter of a music establishment in service to the modern equivalent of such gentlemen (and ladies) is totally non existent, the English Chapel Royal being a lone worldwide exception. (Since the Kennedy era [and probably unique to it!] what has most likely been heard at the White House, or even No. 10 Downing Street or the Elysee Palace on state occasions is not the music of the Mozarts of our day, or the Razumovsky quartets of our time [they do exist!], not music and musicians, but gaudy entertainers.)

    The same is true for the population at large. We have a relatively few great churches with discriminating music programmes, but most will settle degenerately with the likes of Haugen and even lesser types that certain major publishers peddle and create a market for. This sort of cultivated poor and cheap craftsmanship created for an institutionally enforced non-aesthesis is unique to modern times - meaning roughly from the late XVIIIth century on. What we have today is the likes of Howells, Messiaen, et al., balanced by the likes of Haugen and worse. The latter cheap aesthetic would not have existed in earlier times. This is not to deny that there was street music, genuine folk music, and such, but their imitation in court and church, such as is very common today would have been unthinkable. (And yes, yes, don't trot out the beer hall songs that became sacred chorales, and secular lays that became l'homme arme masses. The end result was a lifting up of these well known themes, not the debasement of a higher aesthesis.)

    Until very recent times poor music was not sought out, its composers elevated to a status that they are unworthy of, and published, and skillfully and zealously marketed by the Church's own publishers, who, if they had any integrity, would refuse to publish the refuse that they do, and would employ their marketing skills to the spreading of sacred music with evident aisthesis, intellectual integrity, and spiritual worth.

    It is musical craft, kunst (if I may utilise that word once more), true artistry, which engages the mind in its own distinct and admirable beauty that is distinguished from what is marketed skillfully only for to make money today that sets our culture quite apart from that of earlier ages. There is an honest mentality that weaves the strands of musical thought into a polyphonic embroidery of gracious and gorgeous merit. This mentality is not dead. Some of its masters are even amongst us on this forum. They are certainly to be found in the continuing cathedral tradition in England. What is astonishing about our age is that poor, abysmally disgusting music is taken seriously by even highly educated people and defines the musical taste of the greater part of our populations, is forced or enforced upon Catholic congregations. The deliberate cultivation of, and the institutional preference for inferior and debased idioms is a distinguishing characteristic of our age. Those responsible have no moral compass with regard to intellectual honesty, spiritual worth, and ordinary human dignity.

    If Adam is even somewhat correct in the matter of 'aspirational historiography' it is in that I do aspire to a civilisational aesthetic integrity which has been known by important segments of human society in the past, and should be cultivated today.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    A few reflections-
    (The)fundamental difference between the age of the polyphonists and ours is/was the cultivation of mastery of musical craft in what was heard by those who heard it.

    I'm not sure this was fully explicated, Jackson. I don't see as how the cultivation and mastery of craft has lessened as regards polyphony (whatever that is in contemporaneous terms,) what are major differentials seem to be that the musicological dialectic from the ars and Renaissance eras forward transformed the idioms, and thus transformed the auditioners/audience/congregants. Secondly, many of those in the golden era also were possessed with skills by which they were personally conversant with compositional techniques if only through madrigals by Morley, Monteverdi et al around their candlelit dinner tables. This was pervasive, and to an extent terminal, as the volken soon became audiences and patrons in ecclesial/civil courts and cathedrals, left to take in the new genius of the era, but not to actually practice it. No such mechanisms for modern accessibility at the family level exist today, save for the Benedict Option/homeschooler communities.
    Today, such an interest in the important matter of a music establishment in the modern equivalent of such gentlemen (and ladies) is totally non existent,

    I can't agree that patronage, what you described earlier, isn't just as vitally operative today in general. However, without Thornton School/USC as an academic haven, and others such as Salamunovich's tutelage and support, Lauridsen's status as the most performed living composer (choral) might not have occurred; without commissioning clout and economies, composers such as Stroope, Clausen, Houkem, Paulus, Hawley wouldn't have distributed their wares through hosts such as Chanticleer, Warland, Elmer Iseler, Gregg Smith etc. No folk these days sits around the dinner table executing "Dirait on" or "the Rune of Hospitality" impromptu. So, what's new, the shift from ecclesial patronage to academic/secular? So, the playing field is certainly narrower.
    We have a relatively few great churches with discriminating music programmes, but most will settle degenerately with the likes of Haugen and even lesser types that certain major publishers create a market for. This sort of cultivated poor and cheap craftsmanship created for an institutionally enforced non-aesthesis is unique to modern times

    I don't see how we can avoid moving from "Hegel to Marx to Lenin to Reagan" in correctly diagnosing MJO's maladies here. Inspiration, imitation and invention have always been part of the equation. As Mahrt often quips, once the first monk insisted upon chanting organum, that was all she wrote for a pure aesthetic in chant. Ockeghem was a master of transforming bawdy tunes into knowing cantus firmi for the masses in the Dom, most of whom "got" each musical joke and inference to the bishops' chagrin. A chant to chorale tune to a cantata exegesis was solidly ensconced by Bach's era. And Haugen's betters, including Joncas, Whitaker Sullivan, Ralph Verdi, Salisbury among substantial numbers of other recent composers can still carry on that tradition. So, it may be difficult to discern and promote an absolute aesthesis, but not impossible to find one.
    What is astonishing about our age is that poor, abysmally disgusting music is taken seriously by even highly educated people and defines the musical taste of the greater part of our populations, is forced or enforced upon Catholic congregations.

    Not much argument from here, but latitude must be considered as to what constitutes poor and disgusting versus banal/pre-fabricated versus inspired/well-wrought versus true genius and craft. But I'm not sure that other "guilds," such as ours, are populated as fully with highly educated folks who have everyone's best interest at heart. There's a lot of Maybelline for Swine still packaged as "choral art" out there. And the purveyors of such still won't reach a larger demographic due to bare bones popularity.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    ...the village waits would not have played at mass at Canterbury Cathedral, nor street music idioms turned into renaissance 'sacro-pop', nor their equivalents any where else.
    Gautier de Coinci's (later Antatole France's & Massenet's) jongleur wasn't at Canterbury, but I wonder what Chaucer's pilgrims expected to hear. This won't improve my reputation for skepticism, but isn't Jackson's lamento just the same old song?
    Jongleur - fin.jpg
    1003 x 1423 - 186K
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Well, Richard -
    Ha! There is no telling, is there?, what the pilgrims heard along the way to Canterbury Cathedral, but it was very likely very different from what they heard in Canterbury Cathedral. Further, truth be known, what they heard along the pilgrims' way to Canterbury, or to Walsingham, or Compostela, etc., was probably a species of pilgrim songs, and sacred lays which were half Latin and half vernacular.

    Also, clever as your comment is, please do honour me by not characterising my remarks as a lamento. This seems to be something of a passive and defeatist posture, rather than the active and creative response and answer which I wish to encourage. None of us has time for lamentation. There is much missionary work to be done, much educating to be bestowed, too many souls which deserve to be endowed with the Creator's (and his creaturely creators') finest gifts.

  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    Well, it's the "people today" part of the original question that made me rise to the bait, as well as a certain confidence in being forgiven by a fellow Messiaeniac ;-) I've felt the temptation toward gloom myself as I finalize a program for next week (sponsored by the successor of 20th Century Forum!) and wonder how Ligeti, Cage, Scelsi and Stockhausen have turned into old masters. The good old days! I only have one piece from 2016. Great music is always being written; it's the great reputations that are always catching up.

    But rather than being selective about choosing bits of evidence from the golden age of the liturgical drama we could just as well complain, if complain we must, about Mozart being driven from Salzburg by the church's wish for sacro-crossover in the vernacular.

    I haven't yet caught the Tournemire bug, having only heard the music live at St. Mary's SF on the neoclassic Ruffatti. Not enough programs had been printed and I assumed I was listening to Sowerby or some such; perhaps I'll someday fall under the spell of a less impenetrably-accented performance.