Dept. of Labor Regulations and the Future of Sacred Music
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I do not consider myself obligated to God and to my employer to give 40 hours a week to the parish. I consider myself obligated, on pain of failing at my vocation, to deliver high quality church music to the church's liturgies when I am expected to. Most of the time this involves more than 40 hours a week. Sometimes, such as in the summer when choirs are off, it might be slightly less. I know the work that I need to do in order to succeed at this task; therefore, I do that work. People who know less than me about what I need to do to succeed will only hinder me, and thus detract from the church's music, by micromanaging my time. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I have never had a problem with all of the above, in several different jobs. If I did find myself employed by a micromanager ignorant of my profession, that would be a sign to shake the dust from my feet and move on.
Now, sometimes all of the above needs to be communicated to a pastor, in a non-arrogant and diva-ish way, but that can be taken care of by basic communication and good interpersonal relationship. If those things are impossible, you should move on because no fruits will be forthcoming.
It pains me to see anyone on a supposedly professional forum advocating for practice time not to be compensated. The fact that there are people who think this silly thing only muddies the water for those of us working as professionals in the field. Practice time is part of being a church musician, just as lesson prep and grading is part of being a teacher. End of story.
Memorial day was off, but now I'm grumpy on Tuesday... -
@matthewj -- From your lips to God's ears!!!
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I fully expect that the Office Manager from Hell will need to be educated about how my profession works (with help from the pastor who employs both of us). I don't expect that my colleagues will need to be educated.
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Also, and I don't mean to downplay the concerns in the original post (I hate that the government is meddling in this), isn't this easy to work around?
If the pastor wants to hire a music director at 45k/year, can't he just hire at that rate, divide the salary by an estimate of hours worked, call that the hourly wage, and move on? The employee can copy and paste a model worksheet every week, right?
It seems like this is easy to get around as long as the pastor is a decent human being, and there is an understanding between musician and pastor. Which is about all we can really hope for in this line of work anyway, isn't it? -
Totally agreed with @JaredOstermann
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matthewj has obviously never encountered the Office Manager from Hell, or the Business Manager from the Pit of Despair.
Sure I have. I just deal with them and then they never give me a look again.
The key is to make the church realize they need you more than you need them.Thanked by 1Adam Wood -
OMG!!! The fedral gummit is going to make my chuch pay me like an employee, take out medicare, social security and witholding taxes!!! I'll be eligible for all the benefits the other employees have!!! I might even qualify for unemplemnt when thase decides to lets me go!!!! Lawsy, Lawsy, whut a person gonna do???? The tragedy of it all!!!Thanked by 1PaxMelodious
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hire at that rate, divide the salary by an estimate of hours worked, call that the hourly wage, and move on?
That gives the average hourly wage.
What happens during Holy Week?
Either, hours over the 40 is legally time-and-a-half,
Or, you better not quit or retire or die until September of any year
because those excess hours are rationed out during the "slow" weeks
and you will never see that pay, which you already earned, but are slow to receive.
The employee can copy and paste a model worksheet every week, right?
But then you are keeping two sets of books.
One that you can use for accurate future planning.
One that your boss can use Now to report to the government
and can use Later as proof that your successor accomplish a lot more with a lot less. -
What Bruce said is something that I back 100%. On the professionalization of sacred music, which, for what it is worth, is how it was done in the Middle Ages, as Dr. Mahrt told me: would you pay a plumber? Now, that doesn’t mean a parish should be spending above its means and not trying to develop musicians who are not going to be professional vocalists and such, but it is indeed a shame that parishes which can afford it still have lousy music.Thanked by 1BruceL
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Having talked with older Catholic musicians when I was younger, I don't think the situation has changed greatly in this country. It was often true that sweet old Sister Mary Overbite would play for nothing, or dear old Aunt Sophie Mae would work for a pittance and no Social Security or benefits - all for the glory of God and the cheapskate pastor. Maybe the large cathedrals were different, but it seems there was never a professional class of musicians in the average parishes.
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eft - When I say "understanding" I mean it to cut both ways. You get a steady salary, based on 40hours/week, and don't report extra hours during Holy Week and other busy times. During the slow times your employer is not worried and poring over your timecard if you are a few hours under 40. You are paid and report based on the average workweek, which is reported as 40 (even if it is more than that in fact - this can't be a surprise to anyone used to church music). In other words, nothing changes.
Now, if we want to report and get more pay for time-and-a-half, then we can't be surprised if an employer wants to keep a time card and scrutinize slower times during the year. Personally, I think it's better for all concerned to have a steady salary and a mutual understanding that there are really busy times and slower times throughout the year. -
matthewj: You took the words out of my mouth. And I do believe that most Catholic musicians function within that reality. IOW, when all your work is up to date, and you're still at the church, on or off the clock, do whatever you need to do. If you go over to the organ to run through the coming weekend's music for an hour, and you accomplish that in 30 minutes, do whatever you want for the other 30 minutes. Your job is under your immediate boss - your priest (pastor or not). The Diocesan oversight is, in reality, a minor chore for someone in the parish office. If you maintain a good relationship with your boss (as in any profession) that is the only thing that matters.Thanked by 1eft94530
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The Diocesan oversight is, in reality, a minor chore for someone in the parish office.
My employer is a small parish.
It pays me to do two part-time jobs,
15 hours office manager, 9 hours organist.
Yes it is a chore. No it is not always minor.
Being professional toward the office workers
who must follow through on government chores is also A Good Thing.Thanked by 1Steve Collins -
We do have really good Diocesan support, and that includes that ALL Diocesan entities use the same out-sourced payroll, with synchronized paydays throughout the system. Maybe they have the more major chore, which they chose to pass on to the payroll service. All I have to do (as parish bookkeeper - my other hat!) is input hours and check boxes for salaries, and everything else is taken care of. Our salaries and hours are set - as agreed upon between employees and Pastor. It's a pain that anyone has to jump through these stupid hoops for the government, but I really don't think anyone is going to audit the work actually done as to performance, group rehearsal, private practice, paperwork, etc.
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During the slow times your employer is not worried and poring over your timecard if you are a few hours under 40. You are paid and report based on the average workweek, which is reported as 40 (even if it is more than that in fact - this can't be a surprise to anyone used to church music). In other words, nothing changes.
Jared, the understanding you are describing is precisely the exempt classification that is no longer possible under that $47,000+ gross salary threshold.Thanked by 1eft94530 -
That brings the whole matter down to being between you, your pencil, and your time card.Thanked by 1Adam Wood
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no longer possible under that $47,000+ gross salary threshold.
Yes; that's why this thread was started.
IBM, on facing a similar situation, converted all its (affected) salaried people to hourly and reduced the hourly rate of pay to compensate for overtime payments which they KNEW would be made based on their experience.
That may be the solution adopted by various churches as time goes on.Thanked by 1Adam Wood -
No. (Thanks be to God)
No. -
No, and I'm not sure exactly why, because I haven't read all of the relevant code. I'm a teacher with a contract, so I am salaried per the terms of the contract.
It doesn't matter, because I'm contracted. The workload is dependent on the schedule I'm given to teach, which is in large part determined by the number of students in the school, and how they are divided for the band classes I teach. -
Teachers are specifically identified as exempt.
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Removed.
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Kevin (or others),
OK - then I don't understand...maybe I'm being dense. I would like to understand better as a number of priests have asked me for advice on this very matter recently (under the current regulations - how to hire and how much they should offer).
As I understand it, if you make less than 47k gross, you are not considered salaried, but an hourly worker. BUT isn't your employer free to pay you whatever he wants per hour, and aren't you both free to keep track of hours in a way that you both understand as fair (e.g. averaging if this makes sense)? My thought was that by manipulating both variables (hours and pay per hour) it would be possible to arrive at any desired yearly end figure. What am I missing?
I also know people who get a generous stipend "per mass" (more than the going rate) - but of course, this assumes travel time, practice time, etc., and both parties consider this a good way to handle payment. Isn't a priest free to pay as much as he wants per Mass, so that it works out to the end desired amount per year? Thus leaving hours behind entirely?
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As to the manipulation, yes: that is what happens now, has happened in the past, and will continue to happen. The bottom line is that the business doesn't pay more than what they agreed to. This regulation will cause many to come up with creative ways of effectively circumventing it. "Working the clock" is one of the oldest tricks in the labor trade.
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A few clarifying points:
1) The FLSA regs only apply to 40 hr/wk employees;
2) An employer can still pay you a regular paycheck each week even if you fall under the 47K threshold and your hours fluctuate;
3) Employees who fall under the 40 hr/47K threshold fill out time sheets to ensure that they aren't being abused, i.e., being compensated as a salaried employee but working hours performing tasks not envisioned by their job title or description;
4) The creative professional employee exemption can and should be applied to church musicians.
The DOL and the IRS have repeatedly misunderstood the nature of artists and how they work. But intelligent folk can apply a bit of common sense and make this work out. -
Teachers are specifically identified as exempt.
Are you sure, eft? Down here our parochial teachers have had to turn in their classroom keys during the summer (by mandate from diocese/superintendent) specifically because of this law. -
Dioceses all over the country are setting up odd rules and practices that are misapplications based on incorrect reading of the new laws. Therein lies the first problem. The remaining problems are a result of the first problem.
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Dioceses all over the country are setting up odd rules and practices that are misapplications based on incorrect reading of the new laws
Sounds like the 1970s all over again. -
My position is described as a 3/8 position,
Yes, but in the Episcopal Church, that's paid as full-time would be anywhere else. -
My position is described as a 3/8 position,
Do you conduct that in one? -
eft94530: Teachers are specifically identified as exempt.
melofluent: Are you sure, eft?
See the OP which provides the link.
Questions and Answers
3. [...]
Certain employees are not subject to either the salary basis or salary level tests (for example, doctors, teachers, and lawyers). -
CG-Z,Yes, but in the Episcopal Church, that's paid as full-time would be anywhere else.
Do you mean in the sense that it is a salaried position, or in the sense that part-time salaries in the Episcopal Church are comparable to full-time salaries elsewhere?
Adam,Do you conduct that in one?
It doesn't matter—they're probably not watching. -
God help the Diocese which has a bunch of disgruntled musicians, or for that matter, parish administrators
Or whose ordinary runs afoul of an over-reaching government by standing firm on the dignity of the human person?the Business Manager from the Pit of Despair.
I thought she was working as a DRE... and anyway she wasfound outfiredretired with due gratitude.
(Save the Liturgy, Save the World) -
Or whose ordinary runs afoul of an over-reaching government by standing firm on the dignity of the human person?
Yah, but that's a more remote possibility. If DOL actually gears up an investigation, they will want a BUNCH of window-dressing 'offenses,' which requires complainants, which goes to the 'disgruntled' bunch.
The mood of the country is changing rapidly. 'Religious-persecution' stuff will not play well, although I think that either candidate is willing to engage in that sort of war. -
As music director in my parish, I am paid for 18 hours per week. In the beginning they asked me to fill out time sheets with no more than 18 hours a week on them no mater how many hours I worked. I get paid the same regardless. Well, I really meant to fill out those sheets but forgetting, even when the secretary gave them to me filled out and only wanted me to sign them. So they dropped it. Then a year or two ago, the parish manager told me the diocese was cracking down and that I had to fill out a time sheet. If I don't get it in on time he hounds me for it. I still get the same salary no matter how many or few hours I work (by the way, I average about 25 hrs per week). I find it difficult to keep track of the ten to thirty minute phone calls, time lying in bed thinking about what music to do for a particular celebration etc. One interesting thing (and this only happened once) is when I work more than 40 hours I and paid time and a half for overtime. But only on the time over 40 hours, not on hours 19-39 --for which I am paid nothing!
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IMO, this is the way it should be. Each of us has agreed upon a time and pay with our employer - our church - our Pastor. It shouldn't be anyone else's business. But our super-wonderful government - all those folks who tell us they are simply "here to help" think they know better. All they really want is complete control over our lives, through our employers, and through our insurance companies.
FYI, every "Arch/Bishop of N., a Corporation Sole" is only a local corporation. The Catholic Church in the USA has one, and only one, IRS non-profit designation letter. Therefore, any bishop who makes a stand automatically involves every bishop in the country. Yes, they ARE running scared from every branch of the Federal Government. -
A Sinner, that screams defrauding you of your wages... Why in God’s name does the church abuse people like this?
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I did not say that I am either underpaid or under-appreciated. I'm quite happy with my pay in my situation, and I am full-time, but not at 40 hours. (I am not going to state my income!) I am a bit different, because only part of my duties are musical - I am also the bookkeeper. My point is only that my Pastor and I agreed to these terms, and I consider that to be between the two of us - not the Diocese, NOT the Federal Government!
If any Catholic musicians either thinks or feels that they are underpaid, or under-appreciated, then it's time for a PRIVATE, heart-to-heart talk with your Pastor.Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
time lying in bed thinking about what music to do for a particular celebration etc.
I'm sorry, but every single person in a professional-level job in the entire world (if not about music, then about whatever their job is about) does this - and it does not count as paid time.
In many professions, you would have to complete timesheets with breakdowns to the nearest six minutes, to enable client billing. Count yourself lucky that church music does not require this. -
No, but they are salaried...
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ISTM that's the problem. Being a salaried employee is a workplace agreement. The US Government is attempting to put $/hour regulations on the very definition of "salaried". Again, the entire "Church" should be considered private sector - that part of society that most of us would like the government to leave us alone!
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OK, fine, the government regulation here is a problem, but if government is to stay out, then the social doctrine needs to be followed, yet it is routinely ignored with church employees.Thanked by 1Elmar
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I think, more to the point of where "the future of sacred music" is depends on Seminaries, and the Priests and Bishops they produce - and, of course, what those institutions teach about true sacred music and the Liturgies of the Church all the way down to the least of the local parishes. Any Pastor who thinks the Liturgy is better served by cheap labor, simplistic music, nothing but volunteers, IS the problem, and there will never be a solution for them. Those of us working as musicians in a less than favorable parish situation will not get anywhere complaining about said situation, especially to the Bishop who is spending most of his day being a CEO rather than a Shepherd.
A fairly wise Monsignor many years ago told me that the best any musician can do is work for the best music at a parish. I guess it's the same approach as "all politics is local".
Of course, we could also stop voting for Democrat politicians who put in place even more workplace regulations, continuing to tie the hands of Bishops and Priests.Thanked by 1Elmar -
Republicans screw over industrial and service workers, so it doesn’t matter who we vote for.
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