Hymnal Options (or Best of the Worst?)
  • allegravivace
    Posts: 3
    As part of an Area Faith Community that consists of 3 rural parishes, our Priest is pushing for us to choose a new ‘hymnal’ to use across all locations. This is partly because the hymnal that two of the parishes use has quarterly missals which he feels are getting too expensive to ship and also because he’d like to see a more consistent liturgy amongst the weekend Masses across all parishes. He would like to see us use an ‘annual’ hymnal that also includes the weekend readings, prayers, etc.

    I have reviewed some the suggestions made here for hymnals and enjoyed dreaming about ordering the “St. Michael’s Hymnal”, but this would never go over well with our Priest, who very much enjoys the ‘new’ music of OCP and the like. I was hoping to find something that includes some chant/antiphons, but also the standard/popular newer hymns to satisfy all parties. Does such a thing exist? If I found a hymnal that I could live with, I think I could (maybe) convince the priest to order separate missals for the readings, but I know his preference would be to have just one book in the pews.

    (As additional background, I direct an adult choir at one of three, soon to be four, churches in our area faith community, which is served by one priest. To my knowledge, music is selected and lead in the other parishes by an organist/pianist and maybe a singer or two, and choirs in those parishes may exist for special events only, but not ordinary Sunday Mass. And, to be frank, the congregations (and our Priest) seem to be pretty comfortable with the standard 4-hymn ‘Sandwich’ and not at all inspired to move towards including any chant or antiphons, etc. – anything that might be construed as ‘old’ music.)

    I currently work out of WLP’s “We Celebrate” and the other two parishes use some form of OCP products - “Breaking Bread” and “Today’s Missal/Music Issue”, I believe.

    Any suggestions for the 'best of the worst' as far as the popular hymnals are concerned? I'm starting to think my WLP hymnal wasn't so bad...
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    The most recent WLP entry into the hymnal lists was One In Faith, which was published about 18 months ago. I don't know it personally, but here's a review, and then a link to its index for your reference.

    http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2014/12/27/hymnal-review-one-in-faith/

    http://www.wlp.jspaluch.com/download/OIF_Pew_1216_1232_Titles.pdf
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 805
    Would you be able to use Choral Praise? Further traditional than their other 2 for parishes, and available as an SATB pew hymnal, which is a big plus. http://www.ocp.org/products/30107333
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    The St Ignatius Pew Missal, an 'annual' publication, is very good. It has some chant, much good hymnody, and a modicum of less desirable stuff. I would recommend it for those for whom an actual hymnal is, for some reason, out of reach. It also has the lectionary, plus RespPs chants, Alleluya chants, and others (all in square notes, yet!).
    Thanked by 5advocatus SarahJ allegravivace Casavant Organist rich_enough
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I'm looking forward to reading the review of the hymnal from WLP.

    In the past, my gripe with them has been very heavy-handed alteration of texts including some horizontal (and sometimes even vertical) inclusive language that I find pretty unnecessary.
    Thanked by 2kevinf allegravivace
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I'm probably going to get it for saying this, but, if the priest is more of the OCP/GIA/WLP ilk, Gather Comprehensive would probably satisfy him very well, and it has a good smattering of good hymnody mixed in with "crowd pleasers" that it seems like your priest is interested in.
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 338
    You can also get many hymnals that have the Sunday readings in them, so there is no need for a separate missal for the readings.

    I'd second Gather Comprehensive or, if you can persuade the pastor, Worship IV, which has a somewhat larger selection of traditional material. Something that has a mix of both might allows you very gradually to press things in a more traditional direction.
    Thanked by 2kevinf allegravivace
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Here's a review of Worship IV

    http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/07/22/a-review-of-worship-fourth-edition/

    Link at this link to indexes:

    http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/09/14/worship-4-indexes-online/

    Master comparison index of GIA hymnals

    http://www.giamusic.com/pdf/comparative-listing-2012-web.pdf

    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Worship IV is a disaster. I totally disagree with the praytellblog critique.

    Besides... if you support this hymnal you are encouraging the production of known composer wannabees whose last name begins with a letter a third of the way into the alphabet, of who I would rather not name.

    While WIII is not perfect, it is a far better choice than IV, which opens up PANdoRAs box of undesirable musics and texts. Otherwise, the 1940 is the best still, hands down (although it lacks Marian music and some other things.)

    A few on this forum can create a boutique hymnal, if you are interested, using all public domain music. But once you want contemporary selections, you are wandering into a mine field.
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • allegravivace
    Posts: 3
    francis - can you elaborate?

    I'm certainly interested in both what works and what doesn't, so I can make an educated decision.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Get your hands on a copy of WIV, and review it scrupulously. I did, and I was aghast. There is more on this forum that discusses the content of various hymnals if you search 'hymnal'.

    UPDATE

    Here is one that I thought of:

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/6440/comparison-of-hymnals-st.-michael-vatican-ii-worship-iv-adoremus-etc./p1
  • allegravivace
    Posts: 3
    Thank you for drawing my attention back to this review - I'm starting to go in circles with what I have/haven't read.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    There is no commercially produced hymnal that I would endorse thoroughly for use at our joints out here. None, nada, zilch......pretty sad state.
    I think if there is a breakthrough in that estimation, WLP will be its progenitor.
    GIA? Their two best efforts are obsolete, LEAD ME, GUIDE ME (1st edition) and RITUALSONGS. Sorry 'bout that Fr. Ron.
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    I would have to add my agreement with those who offer negative criticism of Worship IV. This is really sad. Sad because it is presented as a more or less scholarly hymnal which meets the demand for hymns for every feast and solemnity. But! It isn't scholarly and doesn't satisfy the needs of all the annual cycle of feasts on the Catholic kalendar. It is enticing because it does have, mostly, decent hymnody (though it has been largely castrated) and is far, far better than any other hymnals offered by GIA. It could squeak by on the basis of its being a far cry better than Gather, which is another few cries better than Ritual Song, than which I shouldn't want so much as to look upon, or touch, anything worse. Still it has enough ritually inappropriate social-consciousness-activist songs, trendy left-overs from some decades ago, and a general taming-pruning-avoidance of Catholic doctrine and piety to make it a poor choice. These songs could very well appeal to Episcopalians of that rather chic and socially trendy sort. It is sad (if not sick) to see them being put forth as Catholic hymnody.

    If you are in need, though, of a hymnal which is not really a Catholic liturgical paradigm (due to priestly desires and such), then Worship IV is the best of these sorts. If you really want a truly Catholic book, look elsewhere and don't look back.

    You would be challenged to find a more fitting Catholic hymnal that the Lumen Christi Hymnal. Get a copy for reference and at least make your priest aware of it. Also, in addition to some others mentioned here, don't overlook The Catholic Hymn Book, an English Catholic book, published by Gracewing. At least get yourself a reference copy. And, of course, there is The Hymnal 1940, used almost exclusively in the Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter, as well as in a few purely Roman rite parishes here and there.
    Thanked by 2allegravivace rich_enough
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Yes, I forgot about The Catholic Hymn Book... (thnx MJO) an excellent hymnal, although I believe the melody is separated from the text if my memory serves me correctly.
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Yes, Francis. Your memory is correct. Many of the hymns are printed below their tunes. This is a book for people who are not easily upset over the pleasure of using their brains. I mastered this all by myself, with great glee, when I was six years old. It's child's play.
    Thanked by 2francis allegravivace
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    a text from WIV which I found on the other link I posted above:

    You are called to set the table, / Blessing bread as Jesus blessed,
      Then to come with thirst and hunger, / Needing care like all the rest.
      Christ be known in all our sharing, / Feeding all with signs of love.

    gag me with a 32' Bombarde
    shlsperckelsorgan346848x014_t933x640.jpg
    933 x 575 - 96K
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    That quotation is from a text by Prof. Ruth Duck, whose hymn "As a fire is meant for burning" urges the church "not to preach our creeds or customs". Dr. Duck is a minister in the United Church of Christ and a professor at the Methodist institution Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I haven't found a perfect hymnal, although the Hymnal 1940 comes closer than most. I examined Worship IV and it isn't perfect, either. However, there are far, far worse hymnals out there. My congregation only used perhaps one-third of Ritual Song. I didn't program any of the Haugen Haas type stuff. All that was in the two-thirds we never used. I suspect we could use only the good stuff in any number of hymnals and get by.
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    The only problem with buying and supporting certain hymnals "to get by" is that a lot of royalties go to the wannabe composers that we do not want to continue in the publishing business. Boycott bad and even questionable hymnals.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Unfortunately, Francis, some of the ballyhooed "Catholic" hymnals that have come along haven't lived up to their promise. Some have even created problems where none existed before. These had no works by those wannabe composers, but were screwed up by people who should have known better.
  • Fr. Jim Chepponis
    Posts: 220
    Ruth Duck, whose hymn "As a fire is meant for burning" urges the church "not to preach our creeds or customs".
    In Worship IV, Ruth Duck’s text for “As a Fire Is Meant for Burning” has been altered. The text “Not to preach our creeds or customs, But to build a bridge of care…” has been changed to “As we witness to the gospel, We would build a bridge of care…”
    Thanked by 2CharlesW irishtenor
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Charles

    hmmmm... please elaborate or pontificate which ever is your present mood.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Fr Jim.

    I guess it's now an alt of an alt of an alt if you get my drift.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Charles

    hmmmm... please elaborate or pontificate which ever is your present mood.


    Let's just say incompetent editing is as bad as incompetent writing. You figure it out.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    It was said to me by someone well-placed to know that a certain person in the ordinariate had noted that an ordinariate hymnal was needed. Whenever this should happen will be when there will be the paradigm of a Catholic hymnal that might well be the hymnal of all our hearts' desires.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    Jackson, is there enough agreement about hymn tunes on the two sides of the pond for that? I've noticed very considerable differences in repertoire.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Their two best efforts are obsolete, LEAD ME, GUIDE ME (1st edition) and RITUALSONGS


    We still use RITUALSONG at our church.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Of the GIA-OCP-WLP big trinity's offerings, I miss Worship II (1975). The later editions are lesser.

    Thanked by 2CharlesW BruceL
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Kathy -
    You are right in that there are a variety of differences on both shores of the pond, not to mention that shore down south of the pond. We lived through some of them in the creation of Divine Worship: The Missal. But we overcame them. As for the hymnal to which I alluded, I'm pretty sure that The Person who noted its need had only the ordinariate of Peter's chair in mind - but we shall see.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700

    I think most people who replied to this so far have ignored this part of the OP's post:
    but this would never go over well with our Priest, who very much enjoys the ‘new’ music of OCP and the like.


    That being said, I might suggest trying to sell the Pastor on the Lumen Christi Hymnal.

    That sounds insane, right?

    No. It's not.

    The LCH is full of good hymns. Not enough for the average parish who uses 4-5 hymns per week.

    Sell the pastor on getting the LCH and printing a very small 1/2 a piece of letter paper front and back worship aid each week. On that worship aid you'll find: the name of the Sunday, the page number to the Processional Hymn from the LCH, an offertory hymn from OCP. On the back of that page you'll find (hopefully) the text to the Communion antiphon you'll sing, an OCP Communion hymn, and the page number for the Recessional Hymn from the LCH.

    Explain to the pastor that this will allow you to have the best traditional hymns in the pews while allowing you the flexibility to use even more modern hymns that might be written next year.

    It also allows you to not need to announce hymn numbers. And you only 'waste' half a piece of paper per attendee per week.

    Most importantly - you won't be putting something "permanent" in your pew with any questionable material in it. And the black cover is very appealing to the eye.

    And it is inexpensive.

    Thanked by 3fcb Adam Wood allegravivace
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    The LCH is full of good hymns. Not enough for the average parish who uses 4-5 hymns per week.


    This seems a problem with several hymnals - not enough hymns. Some will think, "O, but they use Propers and such and don't need many hymns." Totally wrong in most parishes. Parishes that sing hymns need, "enough for the average parish who uses 4-5 hymns per week."
    Thanked by 3Casavant Organist M. Jackson Osborn allegravivace
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    That being said, I might suggest trying to sell the Pastor on the Lumen Christi Hymnal.


    My old pastor would have rejected it because it has a Latin title.
    Thanked by 3BruceL Kathy allegravivace
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    CK, point of clarification. I didn't say RitualSongs was unusable or unfeasable, it is obsolete (by the editorial hands at GIA) because of MR3. I'm sure you've done a great job of steering ordinary texts according to revisions.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    The RitualSong hymnal is not only NOT obsolete, its several editions (as well as the several editions of Worship III, Catholic Community Hymnal Gather Comprehensive, and Gather Comprehensive 2) are still included in the GIA catalog. Sure, its English settings of the Gloria, Nicene Creed, Sanctus, and Memorial Acclamations using the pre-2010 (ICET) texts may no longer be used in the liturgy. But that is pretty much the extent of RitualSong's (or any other of those other hymnals') "obsolescence."

    A number of contributors to the Forum have written that they would be satisfied having a newly published hymnal in their parish which only contained hymns. They could get the service music they desire from other sources. Entirely consistent with that approach would be to use the hymnody from service books and hymnals published before 2010. So it is no surprise to see the quite significant number of parishes which have hymnals/service books published before 2010 still in their church's pew racks. The books were in good condition when 2010 and the MR3 rolled around, and the decision was made to stay with the pre-2010 books and find another solution for providing the revised Order of Mass.

    In the fiscal year ending on 6/30/2015, GIA sold 569 pew edition copies of the (1996/98) RitualSong and 180 copies of its choir edition. In the same fiscal year it sold over 1,000 pew edition copies of the (2004) Gather Comprehensive 2 and 778 copies of its choir edition. Perhaps most or all of these sales were "replacement copies" for ones lost/stolen or irreparably damaged in parishes still using Ritual Song and Gather Comprehensive 2. But the sales demonstrate that hymnals published before 2010 can and are still being used today even though the Order of Mass was revised six years ago.

    I would like to address some comments about the contents of the Ritual Song, Worship 3, and Worship 4 hymnals, but I will not be able to get to that until later today.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    I agree that it is not important to have updated service music in a hymnal. Rare indeed is the parishioner who sings the Holy Holy Holy from a hymnal!

    There is a slight economic consideration having to do with the organist and choir copies of service music. But I don't think the hymnal itself needs to bear the burden for the Ordinary, or for that matter, Psalms.
    Thanked by 1Heath
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    At risk for encouraging more rebukes, I believe it behooves Fr. Krisman to carefully read my posts about RSong, as they are actually complimentary. I attest to that because I published a piece over a decade ago extolling it as a much better parish choice than the first Adoremus. If there is quibbling over the term "obsolete," I would suggest an analogy to vehicle standards regulations. If fuel emissions laws become more stringent, one can yet continue driving the vehicle but it will likely be subject to citation and fines down the road (pun alert) as well as the likelihood that sources of outmoded fuels will dry up. The purchase amounts Fr. K has published hardly evinces a strong market for RS. This remains a shame because they've put all the market share into W4, which is acknowledged HERE as a woefully insufficient compilation, and not kept a 50/50 high end product like RS viable with good ordinaries and solid hymn and song repertoires. I would counter the wisdom of Kathy contending that the ordinary settings in a hymnal should be of primary importance, if only because most parishes do not want the burden of leaflet ordo distribution every week. My biggest gripe with OCP isn't over the tedious and perennial banality of song/hymn content, but their lack of fortitude by publishing very less-than ordinary settings.
    Suffice it to say, unsung repertoire in hymnals is a lamentable waste not only of space (&$), but of evangelical effort through the marriage of strong text to strong music.
  • advocatusadvocatus
    Posts: 85
    RitualSong singular.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • advocatusadvocatus
    Posts: 85
    I don't think all the data is in yet about available options. I'd wait until later in the summer before making a decision.
    Thanked by 1allegravivace
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    It wouldn't surprise me if Ritual Song II was in the works.
    Thanked by 3melofluent advocatus allegravivace
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Melo, perhaps, as you write, I was quibbling about the word "obsolete." However I did not miss the fact that what you wrote was complimentary toward RitualSong.

    In my previous post I only addressed the issue of a service book's obsolescence once there have been changes in the Church's approved liturgical texts and the service book in question - be it RitualSong or, say, an early edition of JourneySongs, etc. - was then lacking musical settings of the revised texts. I argued that other ways of providing those revised texts might be found, with the service book being retained for everything else. Needless to say, if the Lectionary for Mass is revised, even more of the contents of RitualSong may be out of date, and it may be high time for those parishes still using it to get something else.

    I would not expect a parish that has not been a user of RitualSong in the past to purchase it for the parish now. So why should GIA continue to promote it, except to let folks know that replacement copies are still in print?

    Concerning your remark about unsung and potentially unsung repertoire in a hymnal, isn't that what everyone must consider when deciding between various hymnals? A parish which makes little or no use of music with piano/guitar-based accompaniment would be foolish to purchase Gather 3 for the pews, with 60% of its content likely to be unsung. That's just not good stewardship.
    Thanked by 2allegravivace Mattspmusic0320
Add a Comment