I disagree.

In real time, there is a flow to the conversation and segues make sense and seem normal.

But many if not most readers of posts read posts in the archives, and having a completely new topic wastes their time.

Insanity. Someone please come digress this topic into something else, so the moderator will split the thread again.

By the way, the rhetoric on this particular thread (the meta one) is peculiarly overblown. No one has accused anyone of hijacking anything or of unnaturally digressing. It's just a matter of organization.

I bear no small measure of culpability regarding instigating and participating in thread digressions over the years, mea maxima culpa. So that guilty admission prompts me to ponder whether our forum should be managed as what it ought to be, what is has actually been, or a hybrid of those.

Merriam Webster's Full Definition of forum
plural forums also fora play \-ə\
1. a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b : a public meeting place for open discussion
c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2. a judicial body or assembly :

From Wikipedia (sorry)- the classical "example"
(Roman citizens)of the ancient city referred to this space, originally a marketplace, as the Forum Magnum, or simply the Forum.

It was for centuries the center of Roman public life: the site of triumphal processions and elections; the venue for public speeches, criminal trials, and gladiatorial matches; and the nucleus of commercial affairs. Here statues and monuments commemorated the city's great men. The teeming heart of ancient Rome, it has been called the most celebrated meeting place in the world, and in all history

As I've aged and have been correctly chastised many times here, I am far less a taciturn curmudgeon as I sneak back to the boards, save for discussions of U2 in Capella Sixtina (see what I did there?) But I'm fairly certain that my cranky side has caused many fine folk to abandon participation here, and I deeply regret that. I don't have a recommendation for policy, but will endeavor to follow one that is articulated by the quorum.

@Kathy, yes, topics naturally digress into other areas, but if it digresses too far, that's when a new topic needs to be started. As an admin and mod on another forum, I have split-off a topic several times.

This has nothing to do with charity.

It's simply a matter of organization.

I ask permission that, after a suitable period, we always have a moment to digress to a suitable musical moment. Here's one for this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGuCl25MGWM

I think my point is that they are not mutually exclusive.

Fun is a normal offshoot of collegiality

For sure. Just look at the USCCB. Some days, I think their collegiality leads to them having fun with us!

What do you all think about pickles? This thread needs to be split again.

< / purplebold >

This thread needs to be split again.

I thought we only did that for split personalities.

I thought we only did that for split personalities.

Well... I mean... it is my thread...

I know you fellows are having fun, but....

I know of a number of very serious and excellent musicians who used to frequent this forum, and now think it's rather silly.

I don't think that perspective is a function of anyone's lack of talent, or anything of that kind, but rather a failure to self-censor. If silly is our main thing, then we might lose excellent colleagues from our conversations.

You might say, "well, they must be stuck up sticky beaks!" But perhaps they would be valuable participants, and perhaps there has indeed been a shift of the fun vs. substance balance.

My fellow forumeers,

Would anyone join me in making a distinction between the natural evolution of a discussion, in which one topic logically expands or contracts to focus on a particular part of the original, and the un-natural "failure to self-censor"?

Digressions of the first kind, it seems to me can and should be allowed. Digressions of the second kind, howsoevermuch fun they are, can and should be given pastures of their own.

Splits should not be determined by one person alone, as there may be what seems to be a natural evolution to some but not to others. Then, things would run smoother and a discussion could take the necessary detours if it is based properly.

That being said,

I love cookies! Oreos the best!

Bang, I have more posts than the liturgical dance post! lol

My last item- is this "debate" not only overthought, but overwrought?
It is a peculiar point whether any of us can distill why folks come and go here. Anecdotal information isn't necessarily empirical evidence always. And hyperbole (the greatest thing, ever!) and charity (you talkin' to me?) mean different things to different people. YMMV.
I also question whether it is always desirable to Strunk&White everything down to a succinct, but anemic lexicon.

I would blame the Google, except that I love the Google.

This cookie discussion has the possibility of merging back into an earlier Oreo/Tim-Tam digression. Has a thread ever been re-merged into another thread?!?

[Admin note: Yes, but it's rare.]

Who cares about cookies? I'm still waiting for Hot Dog Thursday!!!!!

When people start a thread by posting a question looking for information or advice, I'd like to see us be helpful and be friendly and be competent toward the questioner. When you put those together, that's basically what it means to be "professional".

Being helpful implies answering the user's question first. The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve. We can imitate that by serving the questioner and holding back on our impulse to entertain ourselves or to pursue some side issue.

Being friendly implies treating the user with respect: occasionally people are tempted to respond to legitimate questions with answers that chastise the user, or his assumptions, or [in the extreme cases] his terminology. And generally we are pretty good at this.

Being competent implies sharing knowledge and experience, and here there are many people who generously share these, and even set a fine example by distinguishing between facts and opinions about what is required and what is permitted.

And you all have my admiration as you generously contribute to the musical life of the Church.

I do enjoy the Orthodox Hot Dog Thursday - as it was originally intended.

Why you would impose secular mustards and reject the sacred pretzel buns is beyond me.

Although, I do much enjoy the Phoenician Rite (which is loathed by Orthodox HDT folk)

I do enjoy the Orthodox Hot Dog Thursday - as it was originally intended.

Old calendar rules! If it was good enough for Holy Russia...

I certainly thought that my comment was related to the initial comment about how the proper chants are received. Fritz Bauerschmidt mentioned a particular reaction to that issue by not singing Glorias at all, and I believe that comment was also related. Then it seemed to digress to a point where the discussion was about the travesty of not singing Glorias, a point nearly everybody on this forum would agree with. In defense of the frivolity, we all have to deal with ridiculous things in our work every day, and having fun with like-minded people is a good outlet for dealing with those frustrations. Some of us don't have people nearby we can lay our burdens on. I try to exercise caution, however, considering that it is a permanent public forum, lest anything I say be held against me in the future.

I also ask that we give people the respect of the benefit of the doubt. I realized from reading follow-up comments that my comment could be construed as saying that I do not think chanted Glorias are festive. On the contrary, the Gloria can't possibly get any more festive than the Missa de angelis Gloria. The misconception was partially due to the way I wrote it, partially the ambiguous labels, and partially the very real psychology of musical perception.

That subject of how the brain perceives music is complicated, but very much related to the initial posting about how chanted propers are received by everybody.

The only advice I have regarding that is this: just do it. Seriously. Yes, catechesis is required. Yes, the pastoral factor is important. But just do it, and make sure that the clergy are on board, because they are the ones likely to have to respond to people asking what is going on. And make sure they won't backtrack when people complain (I tried my hardest with the educational aspect, and still I had that happen). Just do it. They will get used to it. Sorry if that comes off as insensitive, but ultimately all it takes is courage.

For Chonak's comment, I did indeed get my question answered and I had no problem seeing the thread drift into something else. What it drifted into was related to my first question, and the occasional funny post wasn't that bad.

On the topic, we had our school mass today, and it was an absolute gong show. Only 2 hymns sung, both contemporary, and no mass parts. No Gloria, as we celebrate Ascension on Sundays.