Confirmation music
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    The youth/Confirmation director and one of her volunteer assistants just came into my office to complain about the music selections I made for our Confirmation Mass coming up in a couple of weeks, saying they weren't "youth oriented" enough.

    Aside from propers, Mass ordinary, and choral music (we're having our main adult choir sing, per the confirmandi's request), my hymn selections were as follows. Note: we have the Worship IV hymnal.

    My selections:
    Processional: "O Spirit All-Embracing" (Dufner text, THAXTED tune). People here sing "O God beyond All Praising" like their lives depended on it, and while Dufner is far from my favorite hymn writer, this is a decent text IMHO.
    Offertory: "O Breathe on Me, O Breath of God" (ST. COLUMBA)
    Communion: "Taste and See" (James E. Moore)
    Recessional: "Laudate, laudate Dominum" (C. Walker - the processional at Pope Francis' Mass in DC)

    Their "more youth-oriented suggestions":
    Entrance: "The Spirit Is a-Movin'"
    Offertory: "Here I Am, Lord"
    They were fine with "Taste and See" at Communion.
    Recessional: "Go Make a Difference"

    Aside from the fact that their first and last "suggestions" aren't even in our hymnal, how is "The Spirit Is a-Movin'" youth-oriented unless you define youth as those who were children/teens in the 1960s (i.e. when the aforementioned assistant was a teen)? "Go Make a Difference" is one of the most narcissistic songs I've encountered since "Gather Us In" and was used ad nauseum by the previous music director. "Here I Am, Lord" - that horse has been beaten dead and buried.

    I tried reasoning with them that today's youth's tastes in music are as varied as their favorite ice cream flavors; if they had taught in a school and/or otherwise been directly involved with school Masses within the last decade as I have, they would know this. I told them of one instance where the students had a couple of requests for school Masses - those being "All Creatures of Our God and King" and "that Latin Lamb of God we do during Lent" (i.e. Agnus Dei XVIII)! I always say that one can't please everybody, so why try to do that?

    If you've made it this far, thank you for enduring my rant. Now, what would you suggest?
    Thanked by 2MatthewRoth CHGiffen
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 805
    You are the music director, so you choose. If the confirmandi wanted the adult choir, give them what the adult choir chooses. Thats just my opinion.
    Thanked by 5Jani Caleferink chonak Ben Mary Ann
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    To validate your complaint:

    Unless the first and last suggestions are already well known by the confirmands, they aren't any more "youth-oriented" than your selections. (They may be oriented to what the DRE-folk think youth should be oriented to. But that's not the same thing as "youth-oriented.")

    I think you could suggest something else for your final hymn that is not what they are asking for but also not something as likely to be unfamiliar as what you proposed. (And I wouldn't reach to poke their eyes with the alternative. They are asking for something with an outward directed energy, and "Holy Spirit Ever Dwelling" (IN BABILONE) works with that (as opposed to the myriad Come Spirit texts), which has the effect of not being only about the mission of the confirmands but that of the entire congregation.

    * * *

    That said, does the pastor have your back or the DRE-folks' in this matter?
    Thanked by 5Caleferink Casavant Organist BruceL Ben PaxMelodious
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 206
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around someone thinking "The Spirit Is A-Movin'" is "contemporary."

    I hope you have your pastor's full support, because your choices are, uh, much better. If you have to play ball, though, and need to let one go to quiet the complaints, "Here I Am, Lord," is the least bad of those three suggestions, so that's the one I'd let slide if I had to.
    Thanked by 5Spriggo Caleferink MatthewRoth SarahJ ClergetKubisz
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    (They may be oriented to what the DRE-folk think youth should be oriented to. But that's not the same thing as "youth-oriented.")


    Bingo.

    The complaint for the last hymn wasn't that it was unfamiliar (it's widely used throughout this diocese); it was the Latin refrain (even though a translation, albeit a singing one and not word-for-word) is printed directly beneath it.

    To my knowledge the DRE's complaint has not been brought to the pastor's attention, and most likely he won't want to deal with it as his health is failing and he is retiring this summer because of it. Much of the day-to-day operation has been ceded to the parochial vicar in the meantime, and for what it's worth, he's usually had my back. In the past the pastor treated us pretty equally, cussing all of us out together!
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    @TimTheEnchanter: That's kind of what I thought, too - I can tolerate "Here I Am, Lord" as long as it's used sparingly. They put "Come, Holy Ghost" on their list before they crossed it out in favor of their dross, and I wouldn't mind that one at all, either.
  • WGS
    Posts: 300
    "youth oriented" ? - There was a time when confirmation formally recognized the maturity of the person being confirmed. Such a big step into adult life invited the fortification of the Holy Spirit and included ceremony and music appropriate for such an auspicious occasion.

    I realize that this may not be the current emphasis of the sacrament and that in some traditions, baptism/communion/confirmation are all provided to infants. Still, I think that the emphasis of this confirmation ceremony should be that of becoming an adult and putting away things of the child.
    Thanked by 5canadash Caleferink CHGiffen eft94530 Casavant Organist
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I see nothing at all wrong with your original ordo. The Walker IS contemporary, as is the Dufner text. High school confirmandi aren't generally regarded as FCAP champions in any case.
    A couple of compromises might be for entrance-(the macaronic) ONE SPIRIT, ONE CHURCH (Keil); Offertory- BY THE WAKING OF OUR HEARTS (Manalo); and Recessional- WITH ONE VOICE (Manalo).
    Please no flambeux, I'm just suggesting alternates.
    Thanked by 2Ben Casavant Organist
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    "High school confirmandi aren't generally regarded as FCAP champions in any case."

    Yea, verily.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Ben
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    They are lucky I even show up and bring the choir for confirmation since it is an extra mass and not one I am contracted to cover. They will take what we do and had better like it.
    Thanked by 2melofluent Casavant Organist
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Confirmation and First Holy Communion are received at the same time in my diocese, at 3rd grade, and we don't dumb things down for these events. These are serious sacraments and deserve serious music - chant, good hymnody, organ, choral music if possible, etc. Nothing changes from the "norm" of the Parish (Cathedral) to make it more youthy.

    Thanked by 7Steve Collins Caleferink MatthewRoth CHGiffen Casavant Organist BruceL hilluminar
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Here I Am Lord might be enjoyed by millenials (ie: some of the parents) since the verses are based on the theme to Jurrasic Park.
    Thanked by 5Adam Wood eft94530 Casavant Organist SarahJ ClergetKubisz
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    Bishop Olmsted is correct, on a side note.

    As a youth here (20), even if I weren't on this forum I would say that those suggestions are not what a young person would want. I think most of them would be okay with at least an average rendition of "Here I am Lord," "I Am the Bread of Life," etc. as well as the P&W stuff. That was me before I learned about chant and polyphony (OK my preference was for solid traditional metrical hymns but...digression.)

    We sing the OCP stuff every now and then here at Francsican, but the staff member responsible for the chapel music definitely likes it more than we students do. The most out there we go is "They'll Know We're Christians By Our Love."

    In a parish setting, I don't think that would fly, unless your parish already does that kind of stuff regularly. I know a few people my age who did like things like "Go Make a Difference." But my impression is no matter what knowledge is had of any alternatives, young people don't like it.

    I also think that last one reinforces the idea of Confirmation that Bishop Olmsted and others are trying to finally correct in the Latin church, which came up because it was divorced from First Holy Communion and administered afterwards.
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 206
    I know a few people my age who did like things like "Go Make a Difference."


    The first time I heard it, I was at a parish's "teen" Mass (not playing or singing, just a PiP). They did the song with piano, two teens on guitar, and a couple of French horns and a trombone played by teens. So even if it were a good tune, I still would hate it because that was a cacophony if ever I heard one.
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  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Here I Am Lord might be enjoyed by millenials (ie: some of the parents) since the verses are based on the theme to Jurrasic Park.


    Coupled with the Agnus Dei from the Mass of St. Ann, which is based off of "My Heart Will Go On" from Titanic, and you've got yourself a Blockbuster Mass.
    Thanked by 2eft94530 ClergetKubisz
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    And the Mass of Christ the Savior.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 206
    Here I Am Lord might be enjoyed by millenials (ie: some of the parents) since the verses are based on the theme to Jurrasic Park.


    That would be a feat, since "Here I Am, Lord" came out more than a decade before that movie.

    I really am not a fan of "let's look for secular songs something sounds like" sniping, and this is why.
    Thanked by 2Spriggo PaxMelodious
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    youth oriented
    adult oriented

    But maybe a sacrament could be God orienting?
    Thanked by 6CharlesW Casavant Organist Caleferink StimsonInRehab Mary Ann ClergetKubisz
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 805
    Yes! God-orienting is exactly what this forum is about: chant, polyphony, good choral music, good hymnody. That is what should be used with the sacraments. Period.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Coupled with the Agnus Dei from the Mass of St. Ann, which is based off of "My Heart Will Go On"

    Need to edit that, Stimson. You can't ascribe Bolduc's inspiration, and he could litigate. Just....
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    "My Heart Will Go On"

    I think Corpus Christi Watershed made at least two cartoons.
    One made a reference to that song.
    I have googled extensively but cannot find that video.
    Anyone with a link?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Usually people compare the refrain of "Here I Am Lord" to the theme song of "The Brady Bunch".

    Incidentally, "The Spirit Is A-Movin'" wasn't even about the sacrament of confirmation, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc. It's about the Church and society at large, and the individual faithful does not appear in it -- but the sacrament is given to individuals, not to the whole Church as such and not to society as a whole.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    Do these people have any training in liturgical music? Tell them to mind their own business / put a sock in it. Everybody thinks it's their duty to tell the DM how to do their job... Sheesh!
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Well, Melo, I'm such a peon that Bolduc will think nothing of my hypotheses.

    Besides, Shakespeare didn't mitigate over the "inspiration" of the King James Bible, did he?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Considering that "The Spirit Is A-Movin" died out in the mid-1980s, most of the confirmandi have probably never heard it sung in church in their whole life.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Even I never have heard it, and I'm 55! (I do remember having to learn Let There Be Pizza On Earth in the late 1960s - it's a product of the 1950s, I hasten to note - in *public* school, and it made us giggle. (Well, it was the hamminess of the music teacher in trying to pour the syrup down that made us giggle, I guess.)
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 269
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP8tTXKzObc
    Thanked by 4Casavant Organist Steve Collins noel jones, aago CHGiffen
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    Thank you all for the insights, suggestions, and humor. The DRE went over my head and went to the pastor, who told her to "use last year's [hymns]." What the DRE doesn't realize is last year's hymn selections and the ones I made this year are identical except for the processional. I must have had a weak moment last year as the processional was David Haas' "Send Us Your Spirit," but if it keeps the peace I can live with it more so than the other "suggestions" that prompted this discussion.
    Thanked by 3canadash bonniebede Casavant Organist
  • rjlynch210
    Posts: 23
    Caleferink: glad I'm not the only one with this problem!!!
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Stick with whatever is in the parish hymnal or in the chant books. If it isn't in the parish hymnal, you can mention the words "potential lawsuit and copyright infringement fine" for any more contemporary works that they might decide to demand.

    I've gotten out of some pretty awful music requests by mentioning copyright licensing issues.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    "The DRE went over my head and went to the pastor, who told her to "use last year's [hymns]." The priest should have said, "She's the musician. You're the DRE. GET OVER IT and do your job, otherwise I will have every other staff member here, including the custodian, beat a path to your door and have them tell you how to teach whatever the heck you should be teaching instead of bothering our musician about something you know nothing about.

    In fact, you are obviously incapable of working in a staff environment. YOU're fired. DRE's are a dime a dozen, good musicians are hard to replace.

    Does anyone wonder why I take cello lessons on Sunday morning instead of working in a Catholic church? I rather take the abuse of my own self-criticism as I try to play an instrument acceptably than to face working in a church where the priest hires a musician and then throws them under the bus day after day after day after day...

    the last church position I had, I did not ask for the job and had no interest in working at a church. But the pastor convinced me and supported my work very well. Over the four years, he was beaten down over and over again by people telling him how I should be doing the job - increasing pressure the more successful the program grew (16 choir members to 46) that the first time I was let go was over the phone...the second time in the presence of the KOC cantor who was along with another cantor and musician the root of all the pressure he endured. Obviously, this time they did not want him to listen to reason from by, which negated the earlier firing after I offered to work for free until in the new church and no have any Latin sung at Mass. (Aside from the Sanctus and Agnus Dei, which the people liked singing, it appers. And, a few months into that I was told to sing all the Latin we wanted before and after Mass, I assume because he was ticked off with those who thought they had me fired and then increased their pressuse)

    Putting a professional, trained musician up against a seething cauldron of untrained, self-trained and barely trained people - can't even call them staff or colleagues - is the major reason being Catholic means working outside the Catholic church. In a Protestant church or a Starbucks.

    If priests read postings here, they've got to realize what they are doing. And the almost total lack of postings by priests reflects their total lack of understanding OR I think their acceptance that they cannot do anything about any of this even though they would like to be able to.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    @Noel: that's why I swore off being a DM for the NO ever again. It's not about doing what is correct, it's about keeping people happy, and by that I mean certain people. It's not about making great music, and offering our best to God, it's about entertaining the congregation and keeping them in their seats for an hour.

    DMs, like Catholic school principals, are middle managers: the priest is the CEO. His priorities lie in keeping the constituents happy so he can stay in business, and be competitive against other CEOs in the area. If he has to replace a middle manager to do that, he is more than content with doing so.
    Thanked by 2canadash Casavant Organist
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    it's about entertaining the congregation and keeping them in their seats for an hour.

    CK, you may want to reconsider that minimalistic assessment, and cut some slack for those of us who do try to mediate the exigencies of modern, OF-centric parishes. To what purpose does dismissing any potential witness of Christ in such environs actually serve? I, too, envy the "Schaefer/Kocik" Benedict option for liturgy, but that is a choice they're afforded by happenstance and occasion. I'm an hour away from a Sunday TLM, and some folk seem to think it beneficial that I stay home. (I'm sure there are many who'd love me to commute.)
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Perhaps I should have added YMMV to that, because what I said is true, at least in the parishes that I have worked.
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