NO or EF, Noeisdas?

Lay cantors are definitely allowed in the OF. If I remember right, old-time EF attenders have told me that (in practice) they were also used for the Narrator, the Speaker, and the Turba; but I haven't found an explicit permission for this yet.

For the traditional rite, the subdeacon of the Mass of the pre-sanctified had to be a deacon, technically, but oddly, the turba could be a lay choir per a decision of the SCR in the 1890s, confirming the use of the Renaissance & Baroque settings.

But to replace all three or even two with laymen is crazy...the lone layman should at least be straw subdeacon, not someone plucked just for this.

Just do it in German and, if people complain, tell them you sang it in Latin.

Let us kneel. Let us stand. Don't remind me of Good Friday liturgy. LOL

The Lutheran Mass of Bach's time was 5-6 hours, with a complete cantata, mass motets and a very long sermon.

Odds are is that it was a feminist intention combined with some level of dissent on the church’s sexual teachings.

You could do the Passion Liturgy at noon and then follow it with the Bach at 1:30, as a kind of extension of the adoration of the wood of the cross, which could be left out for veneration. The hard core types who want to mark Christ's three hours on the cross could go to both.

FCB--- whom I think some here call Deacon Fritz --,

What you're proposing sounds alarmingly (but not identically ) like the odd custom I encountered some years ago: interrupt the Passion with the singing of Were You There when They Crucified my Lord. No, the two pieces of music aren't identical but the idea of the interruption of the Passion strikes me as Unready (in the sense of "badly advised".

interrupt the Passion with the singing of Were You There

Passio Interruptus is a 'tradition' at the parish nearby. Having suffered *cough* through that for the third year in a row, my family and I joined another parish on Easter Wednesday.

CGZ--I wasn't proposing any interruption. I was suggesting that the Passion liturgy be done in its entirety and then, as an act of Good Friday devotion that would fill out the rest of the traditional "three hours," the Bach Passion could be sung for those who wish to remain. I don't see any rubrical problem with this and don't see it as significantly different that having any other sort of devotions on good Friday.

Deacon Fritz,

Thank you for clarifying. I misunderstood.

May I suggest silent meditation on the 7 last words?

May I suggest silent meditation on the 7 last words?

Why? That's an experience available to you any time...

I would add that if I were a pastor (hahahahahahahahaha) and I had a music director that had the desire and the ability to put on a performance of St. John's Passion, I would probably suggest doing it on Palm Sunday afternoon (as a kind of entree into Holy Week), since it seems a bit much for Good Friday, which to my mind calls for more austerity.

Noel,

Deacon Fritz anticipated my response. That said, I was struck yesterday by a very short silent retreat I attended. Silence is, too often, something musicians seem to think need to be filled, as if it is a vacuum.

We’ve had this discussion before regarding improvisation... The musical richness of days other than Good Friday, starker than all of Lent, contrasts to that liturgy in which there is no music at the entrance or exit, and all the music is sung as appointed in the missal. Okay, in the Novus Ordo you have wiggle room, but at Adoration of the Cross there is music. In the traditional rite, there is no Communion, so there are no extra psalms and hymns, unlike in the later two versions of the liturgy.

I know what I would have done if you ignored that. So I am curious: what was the priest’s reaction?

Deacon Fritz

While I am sympathetic to that recommendation, it should be noted that JS Bach's settings of the Passions were acutely designed according to the liturgical calendar. The St Matthew Passion for Palm Sunday ends on a somber chorus that presages the week to come. In stark contrast, after three grief-stricken arias and final narrative, the St John Passion ends with a bittersweet lullaby followed by a brief but deeply moving chorale that emphatically pivots towards the Resurrection. It's a genius moment of the latter Passion setting that is typically overlooked by people who only know the works in concert settings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arrA7DBmeNI

(Chorale begins around the 6:55 mark)

Ach Herr, laß dein lieb' Engelein
Am letzten End die Seele mein
In Abrahams Schoß tragen,
Den Leib in seim Schlafkämmerlein
Gar sanft ohn ein'ge Qual und Pein
Ruh'n bis am jüngsten Tage!
Alsdenn vom Tod erwecke mich,
Daß meine Augen sehen dich
In aller Freud, o Gottes Sohn,
Mein Heiland und Genadenthron!
Herr Jesu Christ, erhöre mich! (2x)
Ich will dich preisen ewiglich!

Ah Lord, let thine own angels dear
At my last hour my spirit bear
To Abraham's own bosom,
My body in its simple bed
In peace without distress and dread
Rest till the day of judgment!
And then from death awaken me,
That with mine eyes I may see thee
In fullest joy, O God's own Son,
My Savior and my mercy-throne!
Lord Jesus Christ, give ear to me! (2x)
I would thee praise eternally!

Chuck

Thanks for that very informative correction of my error!

One of my fondest Holy Week observances is to, after attending the Palm Sunday liturgy at Walsinghm, have brunch and then proceed to Christ the King Lutheran Church to hear one of the Bach passions by Houston's internationally recognised Bach Society. Then, after the Good Friday liturgy at Walsingham to have supper and proceed to either St John the Divine or St Martin's Episcopal for a Brahms or Mozart requiem or some other such sacred concert. It may be different in more civilised parts of this country of ours, but in these parts hearing such music performed to such standards would never enter the mind of any Catholic choirmaster or pastor - except at Walsingham.

And, in praise of Noel's remark just above let me amplify it just slightly. The silence is music. Also, it may be an integral part of the music. In music we 'play' sounds, but we also 'play' silences. I have no doubt that Noel is privy to these niceties, but it never hurts to call attention to them. A rest is not just getting off a note, or an invitation to count beats until the next 'sound' is played. The 'soundless' quality of a rest that is properly 'played' is as profound in importance to intellect and emotion as is the 'sound' played as instructed by the score.