GILH Question of curiosity – Combining Offices?
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    St. Joseph is my patron, having Joseph for my middle name and a particular devotion to him, and so I like to celebrate his Solemnity with all the solemnity I'm able. Being that the evening of his feast this year begins Holy Week, I believe I Vespers of Palm Sunday takes precedent over II Vespers of St. Joseph, regardless of the Solemnity and my patronal feast.

    This made me curious, I know I could as a devotion say whatever office whenever, but is there any way I can legitimately get around this and say both offices? I'm disinclined to think I can celebrate two Vespers on Saturday evening. I'm almost inclined to try and combine II Vespers with I Vespers, adding the psalms and canticle, and perhaps Magnificat antiphons to that office, which doesn't quite seem to contradict the GILH, since I'm not changing the proper texts, I'm just adding more of them to the same celebration, or maybe using the Magn. Antiphon that is proper, just from a different office:

    In the Office of Sundays, solemnities, … on ferial days of Lent and Holy Week … it is never permitted to change the texts which are proper or appropriated to the celebration. These include the antiphons, hymns, readings, responsories, concluding prayers, and, very often, the psalms. In place of the Sunday psalms of the current week, the Sunday psalms of another week may be substituted if desired. Especially in the Office with the people, other psalms may be chosen so as gradually to bring the people to a deeper understanding of the psalter.


    Or should I just "transfer" II Vespers to April 5th as a semi-"votive"?
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    Saying both offices (II Vespers St. Joseph and I Vespers Palm Sunday) separately might be the simplest option, isn't without traditional precedent (e.g., the Office of the Dead and Little Office BVM were at times obligatory to say immediately after the day's normal Office), and doesn't really violate any rules.

    Also, though you might know this, the Office of Readings can (optionally) be extended on Sundays and feasts using the resources in the appendix, like an additional 'nocturn'.
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    Ah, I didn't know that about saying both offices.

    Yeah, I did know that. I was thinking about trying to get away with that for I Vespers :P
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Is this personal recitation? If so, there's *nothing* to forbid you from praying both.

    If you're leading public celebration of the office, I'd stick to Palm Sunday I and offer St Joseph II as a private votive.

  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 390
    I'm almost inclined to try and combine II Vespers with I Vespers, adding the psalms and canticle, and perhaps Magnificat antiphons to that office, which doesn't quite seem to contradict the GILH, since I'm not changing the proper texts, I'm just adding more of them to the same celebration


    I am quite sure that such "bloating" of the office with additional elements is neither permitted, nor tolerable. (As long as liturgical law is concerned.) I owe you proper argumentation for this point. I will attempt to provide it tomorrow.

    Saying both offices ... doesn't really violate any rules.


    Today's liturgical law doesn't count with the possibility of saying two offices. A liturgical day only has single Vespers. But of course you are right that there were historical periods when both Vespers would be said one after another; later mixed Vespers would possibly be celebrated ("a capitulo de sequenti"). But none of these practices is an option today.

    On the other side, just as it is permissible to attend several masses in a day, it is definitely possible to attend (or "attend" :) ) several Vespers.

    But sadly, for anyone following the post-Vatican II calendar, there is no opportunity to celebrate second Vespers of St. Joseph this year. According to the table of precedence, a Lenten Sunday always takes precedence over a solemnity of a Saint. So all attendable Saturday Vespers will be first Vespers of Palm Sunday.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    Say the Pius XI office and it is St. Joseph with commemoration of Sunday.
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