Re-applying for your own job
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Hey, all, just need some prayers and support because I was just informed that my position is being consolidated with the music director position at the church (I'm only the music teacher right now), and that they're having open interviews. Essentially, I have to re-apply and re-interview if I want to keep my job. Not only that, but I have to beat the competition now. Thoughts and prayers appreciated.
    Thanked by 2bonniebede CharlesW
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    Good grief,life is never dull. My apologies to be sure and I suppose one should say good luck, but that seems awkward.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,935
    What the #$^&%! is wrong with our diocese???

    You bet you're in my prayers, CK.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I hope that give you some preference, since you have experience in that specific position!
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I was told I would receive no such quarter.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I don't know where you are, but I am glad I am not there.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Ditto to CW. Prayers and "good vibes" for you.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    Are you in Crawfordsville?
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • Prayers for you, that sounds ridiculous and unfair!
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz kenstb
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    It sounds to me like your employer has all the qualities of a dog, except loyalty.
  • ...qualities of a dog....

    Um, I'd say a 'cat'.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    I have to re-apply and re-interview if I want to keep my job.


    Are you sure you really want to keep your job? Based on what you've described here and in the past, it sure sounds like this principal doesn't want you there.

    It's really hard to work with a boss who wants you gone. What makes you think she would even consider bringing you back, anyway? It sounds to me like this is a convenient excuse to get rid of you without firing you (and being on the hook for unemployment benefits).
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 435
    This smells fishy...really fishy. I'm not sure I wouldn't start looking at other options, quite honestly.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • You are the object of studied, calculated, disrespect and contempt. Go! And shake the dust off your sandals as quickly as you can. And hold your head high!
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Hmm.
    But if you are only the music teacher now,
    and could become the music director,
    the pastor employs both you and the principal.
    Does the new role give you more music authority over both parish and school?
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    It possibly could give me more musical authority over the parish and the school. It would definitely elevate me to a position nearly equal to that of the principal, since effectively, I would report to her on matters regarding the school, but directly to the pastor on matters regarding the liturgy and other parish items. It might actually put more strain on the relationship between the parish side and the school side to have the same person do both jobs. The position actually seems tailor-made for me: the job would involve teaching K-5 general music (which I already do, 5 years experience), 6-8 band (which I already do, 7 years of experience), K-8 Spanish (which I already do, 5 years of experience), and oversee the music program at the parish level (which I have already done at another parish, which I recently left, 3 years experience). Now, how many people do you know that could successfully pull all of that off?

    The candidate would have to do effectively 4 jobs: general music teacher, band director, Spanish teacher, and parish music director.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    and being on the hook for unemployment benefits
    .
    Come on...you know that does not exist! I have never known anyone in the US to collect that. Churches do not pay into the system.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, we've actually been told that we cannot collect unemployment from the diocese.
  • No other industry works harder to insure that people are treated more unfairly.

    The candidate would have to do effectively 4 jobs: general music teacher, band director, Spanish teacher, and parish music director.


    Some of them effectively, others half-assed...not reflecting on you, of course, but this is the BEST way to turn out Catholic students and choirs of excellence.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,370
    Yeah, why do church employers violate the social teachings of the church?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    Because social justice does not begin at home regarding workers for the Church. Those of us who have survived make it work for us because we do many things and create nets for ourselves.
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz BruceL
  • And also avoid the fairness of unemployment insurance?

    Here's a routine reminder: Write with future readers in mind.
    I can see them reading and thinking, WHY DID THEY EVEN BOTHER TO WORK FOR A CHURCH! REPRESSION!

    - -= -= - - -

    UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION
    As a 501 (c) 3 not-for-profit church organization the Catholic Diocese of Wichita is exempt from participation in the Federal and State unemployment compensation pools. An employee who leaves employment with the Diocese will not have the ability to collect unemployment benefits based on earnings with the Diocese. However, if employed less than a year by the Diocese, an employee may contact the local unemployment office to inquire about eligibility for unemployment benefits based on earnings from a previous employer.

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-

    It's a lie...it's a spin on reality.

    "As a 501 (c) 3 not-for-profit church organization the Catholic Diocese of Wichita is exempt from participation"

    It should read:

    As a 501 (c) 3 not-for-profit church organization the Catholic Diocese of Wichita may be exempt from participation
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    Nets are good. I tend to survive because no one runs over me and those who try get seriously wounded in the process. There is a great deal of freedom that comes when everyone knows you don't need the money from the job and could leave tomorrow. But you are right about the church not following its own teachings.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    Is there also a music director in the parish being squeezed out by this same procedure?

    If I were just a wee bit cynical, I might think that the process is a sham, designed for the installation of some connected person who needs a job.

    Anyway, here's a question for discussion: if CK can get a job offer elsewhere, should he leave before the end of the school year? How about before the end of Holy Week?
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Is there also a music director in the parish being squeezed out by this same procedure?


    Yes.

    f I were just a wee bit cynical, I might think that the process is a sham, designed for the installation of some connected person who needs a job.


    Or an excuse to get rid of someone you can't otherwise legally get rid of.

    Anyway, here's a question for discussion: if CK can get a job offer elsewhere, should he leave before the end of the school year? How about before the end of Holy Week?


    That would be a breach of contract on my part because the duration of our contracts is August to August.
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    Most Catholic church contracts are written so that they may be ended without a reason by either party at any time. Is yours different?
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    A principal once told me they never contest broken contracts. The legal costs are more than they would gain.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • Still, it's a point of honour, having given one's word and signed a document.
    One does what's honourable because of who one is,
    not because of who or what others are.
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz BruceL
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, our contracts are different, especially for the teachers, who really are the only ones in the parish that have contracts per se. Our administration definitely pursues broken contracts: I know at least three teachers that have had to pay the built-in penalty (10% of total contract) for breaking theirs (leaving to take other positions after grace period ends).
  • There are few Catholic jobs where leaving isn't worth the 10% penalty...
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • I decided as a university student (20+ years ago) that I would never, ever be a church employee, after seeing many lay workers (in all sorts of roles) treated badly. The worst were chaplaincy assistants, whose contracts were simply torn up when a new priest from overseas became available to work in the chaplaincy. And the housekeeper expected to work 18 hours/day, six days/week. Nothing's changed my mind since.
  • And few have succeeded in working for change against so powerful system.
    Thanked by 2MBW ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    There are few Catholic jobs where leaving isn't worth the 10% penalty...


    At that really illustrates the sad state of affairs in the Church: people are willing to pay not to work there anymore.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Or an excuse to get rid of someone you can't otherwise legally get rid of.

    Does that really matter? From what I've heard, no matter how a musician is terminated (except, perhaps, death) the only repercussions on the parish are a notice from the AGO to members to the effect that "Persons may not apply for such-and-such"; which is then overturned in a fortnight with a notice to the effect that "Problems have been resolved, and persons may apply for such-and-such".
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Does that really matter?


    Pastors do just kinda do what they want, don't they?
    Thanked by 1Mary Ann
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    I understand that the AGO grievance procedure no longer exists, so even that rather weak avenue of redress is closed.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I have nothing against AGO and have been a member for many years. It isn't a union and doesn't have any heavy weaponry to use in protecting members. It is an association of like-minded kooks, at times, with a future yet to be determined. I keep hearing young folks don't want to play the organ or belong to AGO - don't know how much of that may be true. The organization's intentions are good, but it is largely ineffective in any kind of labor disputes. Like many other groups it has grown increasingly too politically correct to gain the support of some churches where members work.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CK, I am sorry to hear about the difficult situation with your teaching position has become shaky. I will remember you in my prayers during this coming week! (And I wouldn't mind prayers in return for Holy Week, upcoming decision-making, etc.)
  • If you want to go for it, you do have qualifications and a heart for it. So you have my support and prayers, to be sure!
    Still trying to figure out the Spanish teacher connection...?
  • Yeah... are you fluent in Spanish? We really need some translations (especially of the back of the PBC instructions) and compositions of chant propers for Spanish liturgies...
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, I am bilingual in English and Spanish. I can also do some limited Italian, French, German, Polish, and of course Latin.
    Thanked by 1canadash