Chant alternatim suggestions for polyphonic Masses
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to which Agnus Dei setting from the Kyriale to use in alternatim with Palestrina's Missa Brevis and Hassler's Dixit Maria. Is there a hard and fast rule to follow in such cases, such as using the same mode?

    Also, which Gloria from the Kyriale would ideally be used with these two mass settings?

    Any help would be most appreciated!
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We use the same mode, we have sung the Dixit Maria... but can't remember which Agnus we used will ask and edit this post.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    With the Dixit Maria Gloria the trick is not to start a De angelis stampede: the Rex splendens (mass VII) intonation works better for us.
    Thanked by 2JulieColl CHGiffen
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    De angelis stampede

    Clear contender for the best mixed metaphor of the year.
    Thanked by 4GerardH Ben CHGiffen Kathy
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks so much for the replies! From what I can gather from imslp.org, Palestrina's Missa Brevis is in the F Ionian mode, but for the life of me I can't find any information on what mode the Missa Dixit Maria is in, though I do love the Mass VII Gloria, so that sounds like a good fit to me. : )

    P.S. Which of the chant modes corresponds to the F Ionian mode? If I'm not mistaken, it appears to be Mode XI, but none of the Agnus Dei settings in the Kyriale seem to be in Mode XI so how do you find an appropriate Agnus Dei?

    I feel like I'm getting deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole with this stuff. Yikes.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    ...rabbit hole...

    Speaking of rabbit holes this time of year, what might be the result in pouring hot water down one?
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Bunny-cide. Shame on you.
    ()___()
    (='.'=)
    ()___()
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Bunny-cide is not answer.
    Keep trying.
    It may be helpful to note that 'this time of year' is part of the question.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Rabbit stew? I give up. Does it have something to do with the March Hare? Another clue, please!!
  • GerardH
    Posts: 462
    Hot Cross Bunnies!
    Thanked by 3Richard Mix CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    Well, obviously one doesn't have hot chocolate for Lent, so what are you trying to get at?

    I was amused to learn a new idiom yesterday (from Resnais' A wa tu goe ome ): when one makes an appointment one does not mean to keep, "on a poser (quell qu'un) un lapin".
  • GerardH
    Posts: 462
    image
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    Julie, don't worry about F Ionian. Any Mode 5 chant should work fine. At pitch, it might lie high. But a lot of this late-Renaissance major-mode music is written in high clefs and should probably come down so that the reciting tone is A or thereabouts (in both the chant and polyphony), if that works for your particular forces.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Well, obviously one doesn't have hot chocolate for Lent


    Au contrary, good sir. Chocolate is a perfectly acceptable Lenten fasting food in the east, as long as it doesn't contain dairy. That means dark chocolate and a non-milk substitute. Not the greatest hot chocolate but close enough.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640

    Speaking of rabbit holes this time of year, what might be the result in pouring hot water down one?


    Hard-boiled eggs.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    Hot Cross Bunnies!....

    Gerard wins!
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    I don't think you need to pair with the exact mode as much as major or minor and the melodic pattern leading in and out of the transition.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn JulieColl CHGiffen
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Mass VIII works very well to use with the Missa brevis Agnus Dei. Our treble voices sing it and it leads back to the polyphony nicely.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks so much, Jeffrey and Mary Ann!! I was starting to wonder if I should just close my eyes and pick one out of the Kyriale since it was starting to get quite perplexing.
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