When Catholic school isn't working out for your family
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    As I am facing the untimely end of a chapter in my life, I just wanted to reflect on some things and maybe hear from other people who went through similar trials. Eight years ago, we moved to a house and got a land contract on it. That was 2008 shortly before the "crash". The market was impossible and no one was getting financed. The owner graciously extended the contract, and finally in 2011 we bought the house. That is a very condensed version of a very difficult experience. We worked so hard to finally buy our own house! The public school district we live in is terrible, so we decided to enroll our children in a Catholic school. This had huge positive effects in our lives. When they entered the school, we had been away from church for a decade, our children had not yet been baptized. We went back to church, got them baptized, the two oldest had their first communion, we were so happy and thankful that our children were being educated in what we believed was a faith-centered environment...until the cracks started to show.
    It's been five years now. Five years of constant stress, worry, shame, looking over my shoulder, jumping when the phone rings, wondering what they will do next. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, our oldest son has mild learning disabilities. He's had a service plan since kindergarten, has seen multiple doctors and specialists, and as of now still has no conclusive diagnosis. We are waiting on yet another specialist, this time a developmental pediatrician, and enduring yet more tests. The principal of the school handed us an impossible ultimatum a few weeks ago-Get a full time aide for your son or he can no longer attend school here. Children with far more serious disabilities often don't even get that kind of support and no one in their right mind would think he qualifies for that. Why would she do this? I'll tell you. She's a wolf. She pretends to promote Catholic values but does not practice them in real life. She's more concerned about how things look on the outside to people who don't matter, she's obsessed with state test scores for the school, she is short staffed and getting another aide in the building through families like ours is a cheap way for her to get another body in the building, she will get more state funding if our son's service plan is "upgraded" to a full IEP with medical diagnosis-a way to "make up" for whatever losses our family creates from
    being on parish tuition assistance, and she knows he won't get a diagnosis that will justify what's she looking for.
    Through these five years there have been multiple other incidents related to the big target painted on us because of our socioeconomic status, no need to detail them here other than they happen at regular intervals, I can set my watch by them.
    My health is failing from the endless stress. I have a doctor's appointment today to see just how bad of shape I'm in because of all this. My cycles are all kinds of screwed up and I am currently infertile because when you're under constant stress your body says hey this isn't a good time for making babies. I've gained 30lbs. My blood pressure is pre-hypertensive.
    The "for sale" sign will be going up in our yard soon and our days in Catholic school are coming to an end. Never in my dreams did I imagine this being our experience with it. It feels like someone died. I am very sad that my children will miss out on morning prayers, school Masses, the last remaining fragments of what sets a Catholic school apart (and there aren't many). But I won't miss anything else, and we of course will continue their religious education through the CCD classes. The school they will go to is the same one I did, and it's still a great school, and they are well known for their excellence in serving differently-abled students. I spoke with the business manager of the local Catholic schools yesterday, and he isn't surprised at our experience because he pulled his own children OUT of the same school mine attend now for the same reasons. And this is someone who works for them!!! He said in those days they had 700 students. Now they have 400. And it's about to become 396.
    I pray that God heals the school and the hearts of their administration. I do not wish for their failure, but I fear for their future.
    They won't have a school if they push everyone away.

    Thanks for your time if you made it this far.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Prayers for you and yours. Sorry this happened. We're currently investigating Catholic schools in our area for our 3yro. Not sure if we like what we're finding so far.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    We realized 20 years ago that the schools (where we lived at that time) were actually anti Catholic in their morality. End of story. Homeschooled most children and put some in private Christian school. Best decision we ever made.

    e.g., My son (when he was thirteen) approached a fair booth for a non Catholic church that was promoting their religion and systematically argued (apologetics) why the Catholic faith is the one true faith and tried to convince the person who manned the booth (a non practicing Catholic) to return to the faith.
    Thanked by 2canadash Casavant Organist
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    I'm gonna sound like a ranting Neo con on Fox News here but a huge part of the breakdown, at least in our local diocese, is the adoption and enforcement of the Common Core curriculum. They used to use Saxon befofe then. We had hoped sending them to a private school meant they wouldn't use CC or at least choose something better. But to maintain whatever "accredited" status, they use it now. And we hate it. My kids hate it. Now it's allllll about test scores and teach to the test and no one can do anything fun because we have to drill you for six hours straight with worksheets so you can do good on the test.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    I'm gonna sound like a ranting Neo con on Fox News here but a huge part of the breakdown, at least in our local diocese, is the adoption and enforcement of the Common Core curriculum. They used to use Saxon befofe then. We had hoped sending them to a private school meant they wouldn't use CC or at least choose something better. But to maintain whatever "accredited" status, they use it now. And we hate it. My kids hate it. Now it's allllll about test scores and teach to the test and no one can do anything fun because we have to drill you for six hours straight with worksheets so you can do good on the test.
    ...just so we can continue to get our funding and line our pockets. Yep. CCC. Disaster.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I feel your pain, Fidem. I work in a Catholic school right now, which is my primary profession, as I am first a music teacher, liturgical choir director/organist second. I, too, have seen the kinds of things to which you are referring. Our principal is very similar: hyper-focused on test results, PR, image, increasing enrollment, receiving similar kickbacks to the ones you mentioned (if she has staff members enrolled in continuing education, she (well, the school, most likely) gets a certain amount of money for each one), etc. All of this while at the same time delegating quite a bit of that for which she is responsible, and avoiding accountability. Music and related arts seem like "extras," and the value of the staff is determined by a person's ability to further the previously mentioned areas of focus.

    The previous principal that I worked for was great. She once told my wife and I (my wife has since taken this advice) that while working for a Catholic school, one should always be looking for another job. Our contracts are never guaranteed from one school year to the next.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Although I have taught in public schools, I retired from a Catholic school three years ago. That was my last teaching job. I can tell you what I learned. Many of the kids are spoiled, pampered and over-privileged making them difficult to deal with. In my school, there were two half-time special ed teachers who could only handle so many kids with special needs. Many disabled or severely learning disabled kids were told to go elsewhere since we didn't have the money to meet their needs. The only new books put in the library my last two years were books that I bought and donated. The politics were awful and as bad or worse than anything found in public schools. We ran $300,000. plus deficits each year, most of that going for the high salaries of the principal and two of her good friends. Fortunately, the religious ed was good and taught by good people. Just because a school is Catholic doesn't mean you are escaping problems by sending your kids there. They may have issues far worse than you expected.
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz Casavant Organist
  • agincourt
    Posts: 11
    Fidem - I don't know where you live, but in most major cities there will be at least one school specializing in teaching children with learning disabilities or if your son's issues are relatively mild, can hook you up with a tutoring program. Horizon Academy for example in Kansas City MO - Churchill School in st. Louis. Often these schools goal is to teach a child to learn how they learn so they can then return to and be successful in a "regular" school without the need for an aid or para. My wife teaches in a Catholic school and her situation is the opposite...the school is very welcoming to children with special needs...but not all teachers have the ability to teach the whole class and provide the one on one attention the student with learning issues often needs (even if there's a para in the classroom) ...I hope you can find the right placement for your son..most of those schools are expensive but also have some form of financial aid available.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Prayers, for you, your family, the school, the principal and the parish.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • Reval
    Posts: 186
    Does it help to consider this quote?
    "I tell my relatives and best friends, ‘If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school.’" ~Archbishop Fulton Sheen

    I send my kids to Catholic school, because I believe they are better than our local (crummy) public schools. They are a long way from perfect though! I think some bad behavior is tolerated MORE than at public school, because the school doesn't want to make families (and extended families) angry by suspending or expelling the miscreants. They would lose out on lots of tuition dollars if they make such-and-such family / clan mad.
    Thanked by 3ClergetKubisz mattebery ZacPB189
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 805
    Here in Canada, no such testing problems exist. However, I was pulled from my Catholic school because they verbally harassed me. I had to fight for my faith in my school because almost no one (even staff) seemed to believe and no one practiced. I hated it. I fought with students to go and experience God. They don't understand. BTW, Catholic schools are publicly funded here in Canada so we don't worry about tuition.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    @agincourt: We live in Ohio. There are two major sources of special education funding here that I know of-the Ohio Autism Scholarship and the John Peterson scholarship. Until my son's upcoming tests are complete we won't know if or what he qualifies for. My husband is an administrator in a local special education school and knows all about this stuff. Our son has always attended "regular" school but a tutor would be very helpful I think. Based on his past and current ETR through the school district and past examinations with various specialists, we think it is highly unlikely he will get an autism spectrum diagnosis that would qualify him for the big scholarship, but he may get the John Peterson which would help us hire a tutor. My husband battles with school districts all the time who refuse to give funding to kids with serious ASD diagnoses, let alone a kid who is borderline and exhibits one or two symptoms-it just won't happen.

    Behavior and student conduct is, oddly enough, not an issue at their current school. It's the adults that need a pink slip and time out :-P My kids have a lot of nice friends there and they are sad to leave them. But they will adjust and make new friends. I moved and changed schools twice and I turned out okay lol!
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Saying a prayer for you now, Fideminfidebus, that the situation improves for your son and your family. My sincere sympathy on the school troubles. I certainly know something about that. : ) One of my sons likes to boast that he has been in every kind of school environment (except public): Catholic, Montessori, homeschool, prep school, community college, state university, private college, graduate school.

    That's the case with most of my children, and, unfortunately, their parochial school experience was by far the most problematic. They were not academically challenged, the discipline was erratic and inconsistent, the entire curriculum was lousy, and many of the teachers were unprofessional and poorly prepared. There was simply no incentive for them to succeed and no reward if they did well, which really disheartened my kids. They worked hard and got excellent grades but the awards at the end of the term always went to other students for "effort".

    My oldest two were at the top of their classes for six years and never once received any recognition for their academic excellence. When I was told by the school librarian that I should discourage my sons from reading above their academic grade and that she was trying to keep them away from the shelves that were for the older grades, that was the absolute last straw.

    Montessori was amazing, but became too costly (with five children enrolled) but I am grateful for the two years they had. It actually served as an excellent transition to home education. I have homeschooled all six of my children, and it has been the most challenging and rewarding experience of my life. I only have one left at home now; the rest are in college or law school and the oldest just passed the NY bar. If you've never considered home schooling, you might want to look into it. There are far more resources and far more homeschooling families now than there were 15 years ago, and many excellent low-cost curricula and many networks in most states. It isn't perfect, and there are difficulties, but if we could manage to do it, anyone can!

    Until the school systems in this country are willing to change their antiquated and ineffective conventional pedagogical methods and stop dumbing down and indoctrinating our children to be illiterate "victims" and members of the Democrat plantation, I believe there is really no alternative but to homeschool.
    Thanked by 1jczarn
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    The family is more important than the school.
    My parents sent my brother to a non-Catholic school because it had much higher academic and behavioural standards than the Catholic alternative for boys. The parish priest came and ranted at them but they stood firm. My brother is now a priest.
    Thanked by 4ClergetKubisz CHGiffen Daniel Bennett Page canadash
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    @JulieColl: Thank you. Homeschooling is not an option for us, unfortunately. My income is too essential to our family's survival and I'm not interested in going back on public assistance again. I'm also nowhere near qualified or able to provide the additional supports my oldest needs. I looked into our local Montessori but after reviewing things I don't believe it would be a good fit for many reasons-lack of transportation and additional required volunteer hours for those getting tuition assistance among them-although I
    definitely agree with their teaching approach.

    The academics are extremely rigorous at their current school, but at the cost of children's well being especially in the younger grades. On average they teach 1-2 grade levels ABOVE and punish those who can't keep up. A lot of the work that comes home simply isn't developmentally appropriate. We've been told to hire private tutors for all of our kids, probably because that's how all the rich parents at the school manage to get their kids into the top of their class. We don't have the means or the desire to do that. Compounding this problem is high stakes academics being taught by crappy, underskilled teachers.

    Thanked by 2JulieColl ClergetKubisz
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    high stakes academics being taught by crappy, underskilled teachers.


    Dreadful. Haven't encountered this paradigm yet. It sounds awful, but all in all, having a great curriculum is a huge plus and hopefully your children can adapt and thrive, regardless, or in spite of, their teachers. Lots of reading in their spare time, as I'm sure you know, is the single best thing to help kids succeed academically. Also, have you ever checked out Khan Academy online? It's free, and maybe in the summer your kids can do some catch-up with the online math, grammar and history programs. They are PHENOMENAL, and I can't emphasize that enough!
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Also, have you ever checked out Khan Academy online?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c
    Thanked by 5JulieColl ClergetKubisz CHGiffen eft94530 Adam Wood
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I think that the whole system of high stakes academics is the problem in the first place. The test scores are more important than ensuring student achievement. Yes, the test is meant to measure that achievement, but I think too much emphasis is placed on those results. Sometimes the test is accurate, sometimes it's not. Also, consider how much instructional time is lost in test preparation, taking the practice test, and then taking the test itself. In some places, it can be weeks worth of time.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Some of those tests are ridiculous. About 5 years ago, the test used (named after a state, btw) had an information science section. It asked the middle schoolers about using filmstrips. Those kids have never seen, nor will they ever see, a filmstrip. They don't even know what one is, that technology is so ancient. Those tests are not what they are cracked up to be.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    The next thing you'll tell me is that kidz today don't know the joys of smelling mimeographs.
    Thanked by 4StimsonInRehab canadash CHGiffen CharlesW
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Just out of curiosity - how do people here feel about Common Core? I see Fidem and Francis aren't big fans.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    As a side, Fidem, I am praying for your differently-abled son, and I admire the amount of care and effort you obviously show for his well-being. I work as a counselor at a school for mentally disable children, so I cross paths with a lot of children at different points on the spectrum. In my experience, children that have exposure to religious services, especially mass, react and function very well, because the structure in addition to the beauty appeals to them.

    What would be ideal is if someday, we could convince some priests to found an order whose charism was somewhere between that of a mendicant order and St. John Cantius - musical therapy and special education through the liturgy, or something of the sort. Something along the lines of the Fraternity of St. Dymphna?
    Thanked by 3JulieColl CHGiffen SrEleanor
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Really stunning idea, Stimson.

    musical therapy and special education through the liturgy


    I would call that a real VIRTUS program.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW CHGiffen Casavant Organist
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    The next thing you'll tell me is that kidz today don't know the joys of smelling mimeographs.


    Afraid not. Now they sniff Sharpie markers.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    common core... the indoctrinization of the state
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    @JulieColl: I haven't but I will check it out! We always enroll the kids in the summer reading program at the public library, and I get workbooks and printables for them to do as well. This summer might be a bomb with the impending move, we'll do our best lol! I took one of those silly Facebook quizzes, a home schooling friend had shared it, and it asked what kind of homeschooler I would be. My result was radical unschooling-which is pretty darned close to how I feel kids should learn (and light years away from their real life education).

    @StimsonInRehab: That's a great idea. My son is like most kids when it comes to church "ugh do we HAVE to go?" but I think he does enjoy it somehow. He has zero interest in music, oddly enough, made his position on that known a long time ago. His music teacher at school was frustrated with him because he was having a really hard time with the recorder LOL...but not surprising given his difficulty with fine motor skills. Kid still doesn't hold silverware correctly 95% of the time. Every once and a while he will diddle around with the piano in the house, that's as far as it goes.

    I am against high stakes testing and considered opting out, and will consider it more once we are in a different school. Yeah that's right, you don't HAVE to make your kids do it. My younger son scored above or significantly above grade level on them last year, the older one scored at or below in most areas except reading comprehension-where he scored above. The whole thing makes no sense at all.

    The house goes up for sale on Monday...
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    Just wanted to say, "Hang in there, Mama! "

    I have a child with several learning "disabilities" and we do part-time homeschool and part-time public school (which I guess isn't available in every state...). Anyway, I do highly recommend "opting out" of the high-stakes standardized tests. I really don't think they benefit kids at all.

    I'm sorry you're feeling pushed out of your local Catholic school, and hope you'll be able to get the services your child needs at your local public school. Depending on his needs, you may find the resources and parent forum at www.understood.org helpful. If you need help navigating Special Education law, www.wrightslaw.com is also helpful.

    Sending you prayers!
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    Well, my husband is a supervisor at a local special needs school and knows all about this stuff which is extremely helpful. He's a beast in the IEP meetings because he knows too much LOL! Home schooling is out of the question for us, but the public school they will attend next year is very good and has excellent resources for students with learning issues. We just had our first big appointment at Akron Children's hospital's pediatric neuroscience department. Took over three hours, exhaustive examination, but I feel very confident that we will get some real answers now. My son has to do additional testing in a few months with their speech and language pathologist, and they will also administer the ADOS exam for autism spectrum disorder. We have a long way to go, but as long as we are making progress towards helping him succeed it's all worth it!

    Now I just need to get this house sold ASAP...
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    I'm glad your husband knows his stuff when it comes to special ed law! That is one of the most intimidating things for most parents. Well, that and getting (and understanding) a diagnosis for what's causing your child's struggles. It's a long haul, for sure, but you're doing all the right things. Prayers for you and your family. And for the a successful home sale.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Having taught for some years, I am well aware that Catholic and other church schools in my area don't have the funds for special ed. You should take advantage of the special ed that public schools offer. After all, you are paying for it.
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    There are a few parochial schools in our area that have special ed programs, but I'm honestly so tired of the other BS that I'm not giving it a chance. Their inability/refusal to help is one of many serious problems we've had over the past five years. I plan on writing to their superintendent and telling them to change the culture at these schools or risk losing more of them. Their current school used to have over 700 students, now they have less than 400. The numbers will continue to drop until they close their doors for good unless something is done to get that place and the people who run it under control. I don't have more time to wait around for that to happen.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Steve Collins
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