Music Director as Prompter for Priest
  • I'm curious if any of you have been asked to prompt the priest when he forgets part of the Mass completely or forgets which portion of the Mass is next?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Working as a cantor, I've never been asked to do that, but in a few cases, it seemed necessary to prompt the priest, lest he skip an element of the rite. If a priest becomes consistently forgetful, it may be prudent to have him always celebrate Mass with the assistance of a deacon; of course, a knowledgeable adult server could help head off omissions as well.
  • I like those suggestions very much. We do not have a deacon, but maybe it would work to have a prompter. I just feel really uncomfortable being his prompter. He gets distracted. He went from Sanctus to the Our Father this last Sunday. Plus, I have the music, and quite often I'm there on only 2 hours sleep because of my work schedule.
  • You're up very late Chonak. Do you ever sleep? I'm just home from work.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    That should be the server’s job, whether he be the sole server or the master of ceremonies. Some people complain the MC overshadows the deacon as the chief assistant to the priest, but I don’t think the deacon is in a place to remind the priest of things. Nor is it the musicians’ job.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    What you're describing as a "prompter" is a bit odd, but it sounds like he just needs a good MC. In any case, it will be much less obtrusive than anyone else. Just like an MC would typically do, he'll just stand next to the priest, and point out the prayers for the priest to pray. This should solve his problem. If you have questions, feel free to PM. I've been MC more times than I can count, and also trained other men in our parish to do so.

    That being said, I've never seen a priest so forgetful so as to omit the entire canon. Is he an elderly priest, or perhaps infirm in another way?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    What he needs is Previgen.

    I Keep wanting to buy it but I can never remember that I am suffering memory loss.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I have had to run through procedure and practice with a priest before mass. They seemed to appreciate being shown where resources were located and where and what books to follow, especially visiting priests.
  • He is 65. .......and very set in his ways. He wants a prompter (he told me to prompt him but he doesn't want anyone to know or notice. There was a LOT of commotion when this happened, lots of flipping around and pointing to family members and others what parts had been forgotten. Some of the choir members even brought up a concern about validity, but I explained that to them.

    Out here in the west I don't think I've heard of MC'S being utilized. ..of course there's always a first and maybe it could start a trend?? I did talk to a couple of people who are going to discuss this with him. One of them had brought up the question of aging caused forgetfulness.

    I did jokingly say to my friends, "this is above my pay grade" which I thought was funny since I'm a volunteer, but then again, we were into their wine collection at the time.

    I'll talk this over with my friends next weekend. I'm out of town for a wedding so I'm even hoping Father will forget he asked me to be a prompter.....ha!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Consistency is key. My priests know when they enter they will not have anything unexpected thrown at them. Predictability is good and makes everyone's life easier.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Well, not meaning this to be an armchair diagnosis, but early stage memory loss can be accompanied by what might be described as mulish defensiveness against addressing it. It's hard within families, and I can't imagine it's easier for non-clinical non-family members to take on the job.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    he told me to prompt him but he doesn't want anyone to know or notice


    Unless I'm missing something, this seems impossible. But an MC, of course, could solve the problem....

    Also, they may not have been used recently, but MCs have always been a standard role in the Roman Rite, so there's no reason not to use one, especially if there's a need.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Priests often have to deal with behind-the-scenes situations that we laity can not imagine. Those can cause some distraction and memory loss.

    Some memory problems can occur at 65 although in my instance at 68, many people wish I would forget a few things they would like to forget. However, I still need to live much longer and fulfill my dream of becoming a burden to my family, a thorn in the side of those I work with, and a genuine trial to my enemies. LOL.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    I once had a boss who told me if the deacon delivering the homily at the Mass went over the 5 minute point that I was to start playing to "cut him off" - like it was an Academy Award speech that went too long. Thankfully at about the 4.5 minute point the deacon wrapped things up.
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    Out here in the west I don't think I've heard of MC'S being utilized


    I know this is a sidetrack, but I would like to say that I am flabbergasted at how little the average priest in the west knows about how to organize liturgy. I don't expect that every priest has thorough, practical liturgical chops, but there is distressingly little concept of the value of a director of liturgy or an MC on the parish level, and little concept of preparing detailed scripts which are disseminated to all the liturgical actors, and little concern when ceremonials go awry.

    In my experience, which is considerable, in the Midwest more priests realize what it takes to make a liturgy go smoothly, even though they may not have the resources to make it happen.
    Thanked by 3Ben CharlesW CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    early stage memory loss

    Ah, yes- one of my now growing list of Piaget Curve maladies. Likely explains the crying baby syndrome.
  • I've only been to Catholic Mass in the West. I have been to Latin Mass and really enjoyed it. I have been to weddings, funerals, where the celebrant was very knowledgeable and reverent. I'm trying to say, "I wish i was in the Midwest." Ha! But, then again bloom wherever Our Heavenly Father plants you.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Priests "wing it".
    Musicians prepare.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I'm in the midwest, and so are many from the Forum. I know at least one person that would tell you things aren't much better here, although I will second the fact that liturgies seem to go smoothly, although there are other problems.
  • Where in the rubrics (GIRM or otherwise) is the role of MC mandated?
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    I'm just going to say that the MC for that Mass in Poland by Raymond Cdnl Burke was on his game the whole time (besides the mitre which had to be fixed a couple times =P).
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Where in the rubrics (GIRM or otherwise) is the role of MC mandated?


    As usual, the GIRM is vauge (it basically says "if you want, you can have an MC."), so I always base my MCing on the role of the MC at the Missa Cantata in the Extraordinary Form.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    The master of ceremonies is in the traditional Caeremoniale Episcoporum, given that the older editions of the Missale Romanum don’t explain everything and that Solemn High Mass is bound to follow the CE in matters that are not reserved to pontiffs or those celebrating with him, e.g. the chapter.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    He is mentioned in this pdf on the usccb website.
    how-to-cover-the-mass.pdf
    348K
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Quoted from document above:
    The master of ceremonies is almost never a significant figure in news coverage of a liturgy


    NOT A THING.

    http://isitathing.com/news-coverage-of-a-liturgy
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Yeah, I'm not sure why that sentence is even there..

    Unless they're just trying to say that a televised Mass doesn't use an MC in the same way a reality show (host) does..?

    Still random, though.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 338
    I don’t think the deacon is in a place to remind the priest of things.


    I'm not exactly sure what this means (physical location? hierarchical location?), but my experience as a deacon is that it is very much my place to see that the liturgy runs smoothly, including making sure that the celebrant is doing what he is supposed to be doing. Moreover, this has historically been one of the roles of the deacon. This is reflected in the directive in the Ceremonial of Bishops that if the MC is a deacon he may vest in alb and dalmatic (whereas a priest MC must vest in cassock and surplice)--MCing is so natural a role for the deacon that he need not "hide" his diaconal identity.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    I was thinking primarily of the older form. I rarely serve as MC in the usus recentior. In the former case, he's definitely not in the physical location to remind him: he is behind and to the right of the celebrant. Second, he has way more to do at Solemn High Mass than does the priest, and there are three moving parts who have to move together.

    It isn't about hierarchy, for sure. A lay MC would make no sense!

    In the context of the revised missal, that would really depend on the deacons, the music. and the church. During the Triduum, there are times the deacon is not present, e.g. the retrieval of the cross and the Blessed Sacrament or otherwise unavailable, e.g. the prostration and the solemn intercessions. Someone has to coordinate the deacon and servers for the Gospel if you use candles and incense. This is especially true if there is chant or if it is a larger church; it would be awkward to stand at the ambo during the first jubilus of the Alleluia. Someone has to make sure the servers are at the chair when the bishop comes to take or receive the miter and crozier.

    The Offertory and Canon are perhaps the one place the MC is utterly useless and the deacon the better and more natural help, being that at least one deacon will be at his right, if not the other at the missal (or alternating if in the traditional form). This is true in any parish context. Obviously, my own experience is in very traditional parishes, both at home and in my parish near the university. You also have much knowledge of the liturgy that most clergy of any rank lack, and you have much experience as a deacon....

    I for one think there should be two deacons, four at most (if you have the ordinary or a cardinal celebrating)...it's so odd seeing vested deacons with nothing to do. I realize serving as MC isn't nothing, but it is so contrary to generations of practice to wear anything except cassock and surplice. In the older form, the priest isn't even allowed the cope except for serving as the assistant priest to the bishop and at the 1st three Solemn High Masses.

    I don't see it as hiding his diaconal identity. He wouldn't do so when in choir dress...