Rheinberger Op. 62 Gloria: any completions?
  • The Rheinberger Kleiner und leichter Messgesang, op.62 is a Landsmesse and does not have the complete text to the Gloria. Specifically, it's missing "Domine Deus, Rex.......unigenite Jesu Christe", "Qui tollis...nostram", "Tu solus Dominus"

    Does anyone know of an edition for modern liturgical use, completing the text (somewhat like Mike Haydn's unpackings of his brothers' telescoped text)? I've checked IMSLP, CPDL, and Worldcat. There are several editions on Worldcat with named editors, but they don't mention such work, and a responsible cataloger would. But not all catalogers are responsible.

    I'm willing to give it a go myself, but I want to make sure I'm not reinventing the wheel first. If I do a rewrite, I'll let you know, and post it at CPDL.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,755

    I'm almost finished with a telescoped version, if you want to take a look at it.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,805
    Sure, but I'm really looking for something untelescoped.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,805
    OK, here's my beta version, put up for peer review. I tried to do what I thought Rheinberger might have done with his material, had he set the whole thing, but I can't say that I've done the deep style analysis needed to be sure of that. So there may be more Quick than Rheinberger here. Let me know what you think.
  • The American Organist ran an article about a year ago concerning Rheinberger and the Cecilian reform movement. Though noting that Rheinberger was Catholic, a good portion of the text discussed Rheinberger's distaste for "hard-line" Cecilians who put strict fidelity to textual forms and arbitrary "rules" ahead of artistic and musical considerations. As I recall, he was particularly displeased with the Cecilians' alterations made to one of Bruckner's motets, as they had cited "musical deficiencies" (this from people like Franz Witt, whose own music is so incompetent as to invite question as to whether he had any business leading such an organization). Nevertheless, Rheinberger was not like Schubert, who omitted sections of the Credo in some of his Masses because he didn't agree with the text.

    All of which is to say: this Gloria as written by Rheinberger is a very clever piece of music. I don't believe there is a musically satisfactory way of altering it to include the whole Gloria text, or Rheinberger would have done it himself—and surely to a better level than any of us could hope to aspire.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,805
    Doubtless Rheinberger could have done a better job of setting the entire Gloria text, as, elsewhere, he did. But here, he didn't. So we have some choices: 1.) Use the Mass in the liturgy as-is and violate Tra le sollecitudine III/8. 2.) Do not sing the Mass liturgically at all, thus missing out on that rare bird, a musically effective unison Mass. 3.) Substitute a Gregorian Gloria (as we have been doing), leading people to wonder why the Gloria doesn't match the rest of the Mass. 4.) Respectfully update the Gloria for the post-TLS liturgy. If this last alternative isn't to your taste, do one of the other ones.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,383
    3 is the one that brings the least trouble, I think.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,755
    Option 5 - Save the mass for Laetare or Gaudete Sunday. Problem solved!
    Thanked by 2tomjaw JonathanKK
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,348
    Great job! I couldn't tell where R ended and you began, without looking at the original!
    Thanked by 1Jeffrey Quick
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,127
    Rheinberger's distaste for "hard-line" Cecilians who put strict fidelity to textual forms and arbitrary "rules" ahead of artistic and musical considerations.

    Unlike the un-artistic and un-musical guys like Beethoven, Bach, Bruckner, Peeters, Mozart, etc.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,805
    In the forum of a professional organization which is historically and ideologically Caecilian, this direction of conversation is amusing. Yes, most Caecilians were talentless hacks. So were most non-Caecilian church music composers. It's not a useful aesthetic filter. Almost nobody was trying to rewrite the works of Palestrina. As always, the greats were writing their own music, informed by the Church's useable past. But the less-great were playing the same game, just losing at it.
  • CGM
    Posts: 536
    Speaking of "musically effective unison Masses", Bruckner's early setting for alto (the Windhaager Messe) is quite nice. And he was only 17 when he wrote it...
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen