New Sacred Music Instruction in Marquette MI
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    The hymnals are merely a symptom.
    nail hit on head

    Here is the problem with hymnals (as THE pew book):

    1. They are not part of the Catholic tradition.
    2. They still are not part of the Catholic tradition
    3. We have a hymnal already... it's called the GR

    Here is the deal with the GR in a nutshell as I see it:

    The choir (every week) does not need to be able to sing the GR. It is two things: The propers and the ordinary. The cantors can sing the propers. The choir can help lead the people in their parts (the ordinary) AND other music which can be hymns, motets, polyphony, etc., depending upon the forces at your disposal. For the easier propers, the choir can join in singing them, or you can have people from the choir join the schola cantorum (a subset of the choir) that are interested and capable.

    This very simple solution is the church's desire, a simple solution to questionable music, will close down the 'hymnal' publishing industry (please), and get us out of that silly 4th option of 'another suitable song'.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    The options aren't commands from on high vs. weak "invitations" or "guidelines," but education and support vs. directives in a vacuum. The end goal is good music in the parish, but this will only happen with a culture that supports this good music, which (in the absence of other factors), will only happen with the vigorous support of the diocese. This vigorous support, depending on the circumstances, may include vigorous directives from the bishop, but the latter without the former seems like an exercise in futility.

    Having said this, I don't know what the support system for musicians is like in the Marquette diocese - is it as weak as people here seem to suggest? I don't see much discussion of no. 5.
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  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    ...and the culture supporting good music requires a few other things from the Bishop and his priests.

    Here's a quote from Bp. Athanasius Schneider (interview at Rorate Coeli):

    Indeed the very source of the current crisis in the Church, the crisis of marriage, of the family and of the morality in general is not the liturgical reform, but the defects in faith, the doctrinal relativism, from which flows the moral and liturgical relativism. For, if I believe in a defective manner, I will live a defective moral life and I will worship in a defective, indifferent manner. It is necessary first to restore the clearness and firmness of the doctrine of faith and of morals in all levels and, from there, start to improve the liturgy. The integrity and the beauty of the faith demands the integrity and the beauty of one’s moral life and this demands the integrity and the beauty of the public worship.


    See: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/02/exclusive-bishop-athanasius-schneider.html#more

    I confess that as a musician I have certain prejudices, among them to think of the music as a Really Big Thing.

    So maybe the Marquette Directive is putting a cart before the horse, eh?
  • A few things:

    1. I believe that the 4th option of the GIRM is preferred by many priests because it is simply easier for them to make the congregation do all of the singing work during Mass than to do it themselves, i.e. singing the Mass (in lieu of singing AT Mass). Towards this end, it also supports two other goals that are erroneous in my view: A. that the spiritual health of a parish is measured by the quantity of its congregational singing, and B. that the Mass should be as short as possible (which stems from other options which are chosen seemingly for that reason), while maintaining a reasonable sense of A. From B, we get such practices as singing only two verses for the entrance or recessional hymn, or singing only enough verses to cover the "preparation of the gifts," so that the priest can just get on with it. Our very own Mr. Yanke would rightly point out that used as such, music is just a "window decoration" to the Mass.

    2. I also believe that the 4th option of the GIRM is preferred by many priests because it serves to strip away the two keys to the TLM: the Latin language and Gregorian chant. This implies that parish politics and personal preferences and tastes are at the heart of the matter.

    3. I do not believe that the so-called "options" of the GIRM are options at all: they are clearly the ordered wishes of the Church. If you take and synthesize SC with GIRM, this becomes clear: SC states that "...all other things being equal, Gregorian chant should have the first place in the liturgy," and in looking at the "options" of the GIRM, you see that Gregorian chant, indeed occupies the first place on the list. I do not believe it would have been listed that way given the language from SC if it wasn't clearly defining the ordered wishes of the Church in this matter.

    4. I believe that the hyper focus on hymns and congregational hymn singing goes to the heart of the liturgical renewal efforts of V2: extending a hand to the Protestants and making the Catholic liturgy look more like a Protestant liturgy. As our dear Francis has said, "(Hymns) are not part of the Catholic tradition." This is true when it comes to the liturgy: the use of hymnody as the primary medium of liturgical music is a Protestant tradition. On a side note: I believe the liturgy was changed just enough to be able to tell Protestants that it's not a propitiatory sacrifice anymore, but not enough so that you can still tell the Catholics they're getting a valid Eucharist, which might just be a good example of the golden means fallacy.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    It is not just the "top down" approach that means this will might be a bad deal in the end.

    Here is what I think:

    1. The hymnal will be terrible.

    1.a I would bet dollars to hot-dogs that WILL contain crappy "contemporary" music. Here I am Lord, I am the Bread of Life, and several dozen other songs that really should go away, but won't. They will be included for "pastoral reasons."

    1.b The "traditional" hymnody will be impoverished in one way or the other. Verses will be missing, texts will be edited poorly, and a bunch of stuff that should be there won't be there.

    2. The English chant resources provided by the Diocese will be terrible.

    Whatever it is that is being required as the Communion Antiphon in English will be something boring and bad (and the wrong text, as above).

    3. The "chant part of the year" requirement will be satisfied in Lent, because that's when do boring music that makes people sad.

    4. The choral music thing will either be ignored completely, or -- if enforced -- will lead to very little choral music being done. (I think the first, actually.)

    5. Because of the above...

    5.a Those parishes that want to continue doing [whatever you call Folk Mass these days] will continue to do so, but have their repertoire limited, and not in a good way. There will be few opportunities to introduce better texts or higher-quality music than what is "grandfathered" into the hymnal. So instead of gradual improvement, "contemporary music" parishes will be stuck in the late 1980s.

    5.b People will hate chant. Because they will never have really heard it.

  • The Bishop is the teacher, ruler, and sanctifier of souls in his Diocese. Even if you (and/or I) object to some of the music he wants, or hold that he does not want enough of the good stuff, he's the one who answers to God. Not we.


    Eh? Are you having a laugh???

    The Holy Spirit is the sanctifier - not some human being. And each individual is answerable to God for themselves. I most certainly do not abdicate responsibility for my own behaviour and spiritual well-being to anybody else.

    Bishops, in particular, have not performed well in basic pastoral care of people (think keeping priests with a tendancy to abuse kids away from kids), far less other aspects.

  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    You could look it up, PM. Just google 'teach, govern, sanctify, bishop' and several hundred hits will pop up from The Wanderer to The Georgia Catholic.

    Yes, we are responsible for our own salvation. So if you don't like what the Bishop requires, you may pack your bags.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Adam, when there's a problem, one should introduce the solution. In my parish, the MD is an ignoramus, so I've advised the pastor of solution(s).

    You may well be right...but the Bishop has asked for, and will get, a solution to what is no doubt a problem.

    Your move.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    .
  • They will be included for "pastoral reasons."


    I'm going to say it because it has to be said: I think "pastoral reasons" is a cop out. Period. I think it serves to allow pastors to veil their true motives and absolve themselves of the responsibility of having to explain their actions. Plus, I've never been able to get any priest to explain what "pastoral reasons" include.
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  • @Adam Wood,

    I dunno. I understand why you take those positions, and appreciate the experience that could lead to adopting them, and I know little of this particular diocese (and clearly such knowledge trumps theoretical musings). Still, I'd like to think that there are some smart people who will try to avoid the problems that you mention, and I see nothing in the documents to make me think that such people are not welcome in the project. Call me a naive optimist. It's probably a fair accusation.

    And dollars to hot dogs is no longer a fair bet. We've had inflation. Actually, around here at least, dollars to donuts has also gone bad.
  • Adam, as a practitioner and connoisseur of the fine art of pessimism, I stand in awe of your post. Well done, sir. Well, done.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    It is pitiful that we are so exercised about this statement. ONE bishop says that he thinks these are the steps to improve sacred music in his diocese. This one bishop prescribes a bandaid (watered down repertoire and a bizarre choral procedure) for a drowning victim. Woo Hoo!!

    Here are five serious steps that could be proposed:

    1. I, in my role as chief liturgist, will not only sing all of my liturgical parts which should be sung, but I will study with an expert to improve my chanting, both in style and vocal quality.

    2. All priests in this diocese will do the same.

    3. I will fund generous scholarships for the study of sacred music for high school age children, college students and serious minded adults already in musical leadership.

    4. I direct that at least 10% of the budget of every parish be spent on music with special attention to providing a wage sufficient for full time musicians and their families to live in the diocese.

    5. I direct that the physical and acoustical environment of each diocesan church be studied. Corrections or improvements are then to be made.

    Bonus 6th step! I direct that every parish provide decent instrumental and choral resources.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Who knows how this will all play out in the realm of the practical. Give the bishop credit for trying to address the problems with American Catholic music. At least he's making an effort and should be commended for that. Like anything, modifications may have to be made as this goes along. This is worth revisiting in 6 months to 1 year to see how it develops.
  • You could look it up, PM. Just google 'teach, govern, sanctify, bishop' and several hundred hits will pop up from The Wanderer to The Georgia Catholic.


    I did look it up.

    Googled "Catholic teaching who sanctifies souls?" and got a nice clear answer from the CCC: " The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism" ref: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

    Also googled "catholic church role of bishop" and got some equally clear (though less authoritative statement about " ... is responsible for teaching doctrine, governing Catholics in his jurisdiction, and sanctifying the world and representing the Church."


    Those who want to limit God's voice to their own favourite type of music do the world no favours.
  • Those who want to limit God's voice to their own favourite type of music do the world no favours.


    But preference is the issue, isn't it? The GIRM gives bishops and priests the choice: the right to have their preferences. They exercise this right all the time, in many ways, including music.
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  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    CK: Yup.