Mary did you know?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,960
    Exactly, francis.
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 195
    If Mary knew Jesus was God, then she ALREADY knew that 'all things were possible with God'. Therefore, she 'knew' that Jesus could walk on water, cure a blind man, turn water into wine, etc. She 'knew' that he could call down a legion of angels at a moments notice. She knew. She is not God, but her abilities and prowess are far beyond anything any human can conjure up.


    I don't believe we have an inherent contradiction with what you've written and the blog post, as the song uses "would" and "will," not "could" and "can." The difference between those sets of words is crucial. The first set indicates action. The second set only indicates capability. Seems to me that using the phrasing you've provided, you and the blog post could both be right.

    I think the point of the original blog post is that though, yes, all things are possible with God, Mary was not given a finely detailed itinerary with every point along the way, the exact manner in which they would happen, and the exact dates they would happen. Hence why the writer cites the Finding in the Temple story in support.

    EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't care for the song either.
    Thanked by 1rschi123
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Well, if that is the argument, did Jesus know he was going to walk on water when he was an infant... either?! It's a pointless discussion and not worth the notes that take up the paper the song was written on, much less giving it the importance to even sing it under the roof of a church. The whole introspection is silly. Did Mary know she was going to go shopping the day after her 56th Birthday!!!????

    If you don't like the song, why do you defend its existence? It shoulda never been penned my friend.
    Thanked by 2CCooze Steve Collins
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    Francis, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that neither TimTheEnchanter nor the blogger to whom he links is intending to defend the lyrics of the song.
    Thanked by 1TimTheEnchanter
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 195
    Francis, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that neither TimTheEnchanter nor the blogger to whom he links is intending to defend the lyrics of the song.


    Correct.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    This song is definitely inappropriate for a Catholic, or even Protestant, service. If flies in the face of Sacred Scripture. While it has a melody that is rather easy to sing and listen to, it shouldn't be in Church, any church.
    Thanked by 2noel jones, aago JoeM
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Having read through the commentary I went back to the Pentatonix version and had another listen. I have to say i don't get what all the fuss is about. The lyrics are a piece of poetry, and as such should have a certain latitude. The thrust of the question 'Mary did you know' is not a precise theological treatise on the nature of knowledge, but a simple poetic pondering of the unimaginable, and indescribable depth of the relationship between Mary ad her Divine Son, a question which is not answered, only asked. I find it moving precisely because it invites me to wonder at this relationship, which if i wish i can think about in more precise theological terms, but which in this context is treated poetically as a spur to wondering, not defining.
    Looking back on Jesus' life with faith in the incarnation, it is hard not to imagine every moment was an obvious theophany, like the transfiguration, but clearly it wasn't. People did not automatically understand who Jesus was, even his close disciples.
    This invitation to contemplation seems to me a very good counter to the sort of bland catechetics which I have encountered which tries to write all of the mystery out of the incarnation.
    For use with young people, I like this song precisely because it asks questions, which are probably unanswerable. Shouldn't we all in our prayer life do a bit of this sort of pondering?
    Finally, it seems to me that we have often in the forum talked about the collapse of musical categories as detrimental, and argued for the preservation of the division not just between religious and secular or profane music, but a tripartite division of sacred, religious and secular music. This is not sacred music, so not for the liturgy. but it seems to me to be a very enjoyable piece of religious music, and therefore could be useful in an appropriate context. It is not a worship song. Does everything have to be?
    And if it is being used in your church to replace sacred music, well that is unfortunate, but it the fault not of the song itself, but of those who select without thought to what it might actually be most appropriate for.
    Thanked by 6Spriggo Olivier bhcordova Vilyanor MBW PaxMelodious
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    @bonnie - I like tune, it is easily singable, easy to listen to, but it's message is not one I think is appropriate for Church. I agree that those who select music should pay more attention to the lyrics of songs.
    Thanked by 1bonniebede
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Even Mike Rowe, who liked this and posted it, knows that Mary knew.
    https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/videos/1101286389881503/?theater
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    My own refelection on this song and what Mary knew or didn't know can be summed up in the Magnificat. "My soul rejoices in God my saviour" 

    "Did you know that your Baby Boy has come to make you new?" The lyric suggest that she was a sinner and needed to be made new and delivered from sin just as you and I. Did Mary need to be made new again?

    "This Child that you delivered will soon deliver you." Again, she knew as evidenced by her Magnificat. The lyric suggest that she would soon be delivered from sin just as you and I. Of course we know that Mary was delivered  (preserved) at the moment of her conception by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, saviour of the human race. It is by these three points that Our Blessed Mother was assumed into heaven body & soul when the course of her earthly life was over. We must wait till the end of days when Christ comes again to be reunited body and soul.

    I have come to a better understanding of this song by my own research and discussing with family, friends and priests.  I would not use this song in my Christmas programs if I were in a position to make such a decision due it's ambiguity and because there are far better selections for Catholic musicians to use. 

    I'm sure this song will continue to be used in Catholic liturgies due to its popularity. I feel though as Catholic musicians we have a responsibility to guard the faith and evangelize when selecting music for the liturgy, before and after Mass. 
    Thanked by 5oldhymns CharlesW CHGiffen bhcordova CCooze
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Don 9 of 11,

    Thank you for making my point (in another thread) so eloquently here, too. One can not separate faith from the music of the public worship of the Church.
    Thanked by 2francis Don9of11
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    We were “treated” to this one again today.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    @francis we were treated to something else, and I don't think I have ever been 'treated' to this song.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I think that song is heretical. I have never done it, and never will.
    Thanked by 5tomjaw francis CCooze StimsonInRehab CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    The song is an insult to God And the BVM
    Thanked by 5CharlesW youngcatholicgirl tomjaw StimsonInRehab CHGiffen
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    Look on the bright side. At least it isn't "A Baby Changes Everything".
    Thanked by 1MarkS
  • JoeM
    Posts: 28
    Of course she knew. Read “The Mystical City of God” by Verable Mary of Agreda. A work confirmed by several popes. Written by a woman who experience documented bi-location and converted thousands Indians in the New World while she was living cloister in Spain. Very good summary of that story here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyusTdiN_yA&t=185s
  • Banjoyist
    Posts: 7
    My colleague sang this as “Mary, you did know...”
    Thanked by 5chonak CHGiffen Liam JoeM CharlesW
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