Gaudete vs. Gaudete
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    Please note and remind your fellow music director friends..

    This is a Christmas song:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCuHuIQRd3M

    This is the song that Gaudete Sunday is named after (sung wonderfully):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh-s8GgB8q8

    These two pieces of music are not interchangeable. The first might be a nice motet to sing during the Christmas Season - NOT on Advent III. The latter is a musically crucial part of the Third Sunday of Advent.

    I was terrified and shocked last year when a local very talented colleague told me the day after Advent III that she had programmed the latter piece for the Third Sunday of Advent. I was so shocked and taken aback - not so much that this had happened, because I'm sure it happens lots of places, but because it happened at a parish run by a person whose musical abilities I so admire - that now I think we need to resurrect this topic every year to remind people of this crucial fact.

    Gaudete is not Gaudete is not Gaudete.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Hence the advisability of referring to the two as "Gaudete in Domino" (Advent II) and "Gaudete, Christus natus est" (Christmas season), respectively.

    Thanks for bringing this up, Matthew.

    I'm not too happy about some of the music being programmed at a local church here for Nov. 29 (Advent I) ... a few pieces are patently Christmas songs and out of place. Go figure.
    Thanked by 2JonathanLC eft94530
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    How about mixing these two up?

    Somewhere

    https://youtu.be/PSZxmZmBfnU

    versus

    https://youtu.be/m8OlDPqYBLw

    I'm way too excited about this...
  • On a related point Veni, Veni Emmanuel is the text of the so-called O Antiphons, which are sung in the week before Christmas, not during the entire season.

  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Good point, Chris.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    Chris

    Thank you. Ideally, reserve that for Late Advent, the way you reserve expressly Passion-centered music for Passiontide in Lent.

    In the OF, the cycle of Sunday readings has an emphatic evolution over the four Sundays of Advent. Advent I is about the coming of Christ at the end of time and the end of our lives. Advent II and III focus on the prophetic witness to his coming, especially in the person of St John the Baptist, and the call to conversion. And Advent IV shifts focus specifically to the immanence of the Nativity (one thing I love about the OF Advent Sunday cycles is the parallelism of the Annunciations to not only St Mary but also St Joseph). What I call "hearkening" carols (whose theme is the immanence of the Nativity) can be especially fitting on Advent IV more than on the preceding Sundays.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen cmb
  • As it's nearly Advent, I want to re-raise a question I've posed in other contexts.

    Whether we discuss Verdi's Requiem, Orlando Gibbons' This is the Record of John, Allegri's Miserere, Spem in Alium or anything similar, I find the same question continues to come up, at least in my mind: what is the proper place for stuff like this, when clearly an ordinary Mass, even in the EF, isn't the right time or place. Could Catholics find a place for This is the Record of John -- one of my favorite pieces of all time, in case you can't tell ?

    What I keep coming back to as an answer is this: the life of the Church is liturgical, but not merely limited to Mass and the Divine Office. Surely there must be a place for some of this. Public processions..... Anniversaries of great tragedies.....something equivalent to a feast (i.e., meal) on the feast of our parish's patron saint.

    Is part of the reason why people keep putting music in inappropriate places that the appropriate ones are too well hidden, or banished to the attic like a batty aunt?
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    The choir I was part of for several years typically included This Is The Record of John on Advent III in Year B as an offertory anthem (Ordinary Form).

    I love Gibbons. Not quite as much as Byrd, but Gibbons is often just ... right when you're not necessarily expecting it.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    "This is the Record of John" is a favourite of mine, too. But I've only done it in concert & Anglican services. I like Liam's idea, though.
  • Reval
    Posts: 180
    Our music director always uses "Lo How a Rose" on Advent III - - presumably in honor of the rose vestments? I'm just always happy that me and my violin are sitting out Advent (even though the guitar still strums along happily).
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Gibbons "O clap your hands" is a tremendous full anthem.
  • I see nothing wrong with offering an anthem such as Chris has in mind at the offertory of an OF mass. If the priest is willing, there is nothing wrong with stretching out the offertory to accomodate such music. It is, indeed, a travesty that such music must be overlooked because it runs a minute or two or three beyond the liturgically alloted space. The offertory is just the right time to offer the celebration's finest musical ornament; and, ideally, every principal Sunday mass should be graced with just such an ornament. The only people who could object would be those craven folk who already think of music, not as integral to liturgy, but as a dispensable additive.
  • Jackson,

    Ok, so the piece would be fitting (If not welcome) at an OF Mass, because vernacular music is permitted. Since it's not permitted in the EF, how can one incorporate such things in other settings?
  • Well, you are, of course, right: one has somewhat more leeway in the OF than in the EF. In the OF your anthems/motets may be either English or Latin. In the EF one is restricted to Latin. There is no shortage of feast-specific Latin anthems and motets that one could offer. If one wishes to do one that takes five-seven-or-so minutes instead of three or four, a consultation with the celebrant may result in him really 'taking his time' praying and censing, etc., at the offertory. It doesn't seem to me that this should be objectionable.

    About Latin at NO masses. I think most here know that I believe strongly that The Mass (The Entire Ritual of The Mass) should be in one language, whether it is English, Latin, Polish, Latvian, Nipponese, or Urdu. My own inconsistency is to countenance Latin anthems or motets at English masses. What is the logic here? The Mass, consisting of propers, ordinary, readings, and orations - that is, the entire ritual of the mass should be in one consistent language. Offertory anthems, motets, and such are non-ritual ornaments which may be in another language than the ritual one. Some would say that this is nit-picking (and I won't argue with them), but I believe that it makes sense. Furthermore, I really, somewhat strongly, believe that, even on great solemnities, all the ordinary should be sungen by the people and no Latin or elaborate settings should take their place. Complex and beauteous choral settings should be for the choir to offer as choral propers and as anthems (and, of course, descants). There is sense to this logic. And, a consistent respect for the correct roles of people, choir, servers, and clerics at every mass.

    Now I get to your 'other settings'. I'm not at all one to comment on EF affairs. I think, though, that a good bit of the repertory you have in mind might be offered as 'prelude' music (though I really don't care for 'choral' preludes); it could perhaps be sung during processions; at any para-liturgical events; at more or less formal devotional services; in concerts spirituelle; at any time, really, at which sacred choral music would be appropriate, providing it wasn't within an act of EF ritual. Others may feel free to correct me on any of this.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    ...fitting (If not welcome) at an OF Mass...

    This is also said of Latin motets.