Sarah,

1) Don't be afraid of something said in the past. The point isn't when it was written (except that it wasn't part of our current argument) but what truth it contains.

2) You could try to play the "ultimate multicultural" card: the Mass doesn't belong to any one nationality, and so it belongs to all of us.

3) Argue from "finally, there must be no innovation unless"... and then argue that the conditions for "unless" exist.

4) Don't appeal to modern camps. Argue principle, not territory.

Read the title as "Article About Bulletin in Latin"

Laughed out loud at the thought of the bulletin in Latin. THEN people would be VERY mad, indeed!

Thank you all for your advice! Noel, curious about avoiding the documents - do you think people would be confused if they were mentioned ("what documents?"), or more apathetic? Or angered?
I know better than to outright say Mass in Latin is better :) Anyway, we are still keeping some English Mass settings in rotation.

Chris GZ, good point about not being afraid to quote the past. I'll look through some older quotes as well.

This last Sunday I saw more people in the pews than I could remember (except for Easter, Christmas), and it's the middle of summer! I hope it wasn't a fluke. I thought people might leave with all the transitions (not just the music), but it seems the parish is attracting new people.

G&S

Do you mean Gilbert and Sullivan?

Or angered?

Yes. The moment we talk about documents with names in Latin, eyes glaze over.

They changed the mass into english, so people see anyone using Latin words as change and they are not interested.

+

These two speeches of Paul VI include props for keeping Latin for the ordinary. Unfortunately, they're not available in English on the Vatican website. A couple of words in each speech hinder me from offering a translation

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/fr/speeches/1973/october/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19731012_musicae-sacrae.html

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/audiences/1973/documents/hf_p-vi_aud_19730822.html

To write a persuasive argument, 1) consider your audience 2) ask yourself - what do they value? 3) show how what you are proposing harmonises with things they value so that 4) the changes you are proposing are attractive rather than problematic for them.

I would suggest that with singing in Latin you will have basically two groups
first group - probably older, might remember or vaguely remember changing from Latin to the Vernacular, think this change was a boon because it made the liturgy more understandable, accessible, something they could participate in...

The second group are likely to be younger, might not have experienced much latin liturgy, but find contemporary liturgy off putting because it is banal, trivialised, no sense of the sacred etc.

for the first group I would emphasise :
Latin is inclusive - the church asks us to know these responses in Latin for the sake of multilingual (multicultural) liturgies. It is insensitive of us to insist always on using the dominant language (English) which may not be the home language or mother tongue of all the congregation. Latin is an inclusive way or bringing a multicultural congregation together without privileging any one group.

This point also helps the second group, but more in the way of showing how latin opens them up to an experience of the liturgy which spans generation and language groups, by drawing us into a more atemporal and transcendent experience of liturgy.

By all means use documents of Vatican 2, but be aware that for many the idea of be obedient to any church teaching is a strange thought, they are not concerned with obedience but experience.

of course there are other groups... those who experienced the change from latin and hated it, those who are young and want to be obedient in a hermeneutic of continuity and so on, but with them you are pushing an open door.

Lastly, don't forget not everyone accepted and followed jesus, not everyone will like what you are doing either. Bring as many as you can with you, but leave the rest to the Holy Spirit and don't fret.

god bless your work.

Thomas_Mary,

[Inhaling]. The Sermon isn't part of the Mass itself, in the sense that its text isn't prescribed and also that it is preached without the Maniple (and sometimes the Chasuble).

I have attended Mass in the Extraordinary Form with diocesan priests as celebrants, with three Jesuits (to my knowledge) with Fraternity priests, Institute priests, and priests of religious orders. I have seen a great variety. In fact, I've attended Mass at which the readings were re-proclaimed in two vernaculars, and in which the sermon was preached in two vernaculars.

While I don't particularly like the practice of re-proclamation, regardless of the number of vernaculars, I understand its "pastoral sense". I have happily attended Mass during which the Epistle and Gospel weren't re-proclaimed.

The odd-man-out, as I see it, is the practice permitted by Pope Benedict, allowing the readings not to be read in Latin. In fairness, it is permission, not requirement, and I can think of one situation (Palm Sunday) in which something (I don't recall which) was read by the priest in Latin while it was read aloud in the vernacular by a duly appointed person.

I stand by my original statement, that Mass exclusively in the vernacular is a boon to our souls.

Mass in a sacral vernacular can, I think, raise our hearts and minds to God. When was the last time you heard Mass in which a sacral vernacular was used? (Remember that re-proclamation isn't a part of the Mass).

SarahJ, my take on this is just be honest and tell the truth. Refer to the documents as much as you can, point to them and give links in your article. Many parishioners are computer savy and will look up and read the documents themselves. Two years ago February our parish received a new pastor, he's well acquainted with and celebrated the Latin Mass at one of our local parishes. During the first few months of his arrival he gave several homilies explaining what the church requires of us regarding Latin in the Mass.

We had the naysayers, the many who were experts on Vatican II documents (amazing how many we had), the hecklers who cried that we were going backwards. In fact some of the comments were very uncharitable. And yes, a few parishioners left, not because we where introducing Latin, although I'm sure they would say that was the reason, but really I think because they couldn't have Mass they way they wanted it. This is to be expected.


I offer some ideas to you and others who are introducing Latin in the Mass or are contemplating it. I sing in the choir, cantor and I can tell you that we have come along way. Our cantor's and choir were instrumental in introducing and practicing the Mass parts in Latin with the congregation. If your parish has a website, see about setting up a special page as we did. Have a look under our Music Ministry page of the parish website "Latin Worship Aids" St. Paul Catholic Parish It's work in progress.

I also help maintain the church website. Currently we have youTube videos set up for parishioners, choir and cantors. My hope is to replace the videos with a playlist of choir, cantor and even parishioners singing chants and the Mass parts.

Inform your parishioners that this is a Catholic Mass and the church requires us to know at least some parts of the Ordinary Mass in Latin. It was never abandoned, abolished or forbidden. Address the naysayers and then move on.

We had the Mass parts printed in Latin and distributed throughout the pews on card stock during Advent and Lent. For the Gloria, we not only had a translation but a pronunciation guide. Many parishioners are now familiar with and on any Sunday can easily sing the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Die. We will begin introducing the Lord's Prayer in Latin when school starts up again.

It will take time and it won't be without trials. If there is anything I can do to help feel free to contact me.

Jackson,

Today the priest who said Mass for us used English only to preach, and didn't re-proclaim the Epistle and Gospel. None of us who speak more than one language had the chance to listen to the same text in multiple languages. I, for one, didn't mind a bit.

Thank you all for your thoughtful answers!
Don, I especially like your thoughts on using the parish's website. We are about to redo our website anyway, I think our pastor will be receptive to putting something on there. Teaching a new Mass setting has always been problematic - even in English. We pray the Rosary before Mass, and so I only have a 10 minute window to go over new settings with the parish. I've tried rehearsing new Mass settings with the parish after Mass, but no one really stays for that.

In good news, attendance was wonderful again! We are seeing a lot of younger people now. Just today two new people joined the choir!

SarahJ, no I didn't ask.

I don't know that it is necessary since youTube provides the embed (sharing) code for placing the videos on your website. There are some drawbacks to linking to youTube videos. One being that if the original poster removes the video from youTube then you have a dead link on your site. Second, if a parishioner clicks on the video link and follows it back to youTube they're presented with a wide spectrum of other videos and some may not be in union with the church. Having the videos causes the page to load slower.

These and other reasons are why I want to get recordings of the choir, cantors and parishioners singing the chants to use as training and remove the videos all together. The same can be true when linking to blogs and other Catholic websites. My pastor was clear that if we link to external site make sure they are in union with the church. Generally, I check with him or our music director and they review the links.

When we introduced Mass settings we usually do so before Mass and generally several weeks in advance of when we plan to use in the Mass. This is true for contemporary Mass settings as well as Latin, hymns and such. When we introduced the Gloria to the congregation we did it phrase by phrase. I would sing "Gloria in excelsis Deo" then the congregation repeated that back to me then "et in terra pax hominibus" and so forth.

I've been thinking long and hard about this topic since I read the original post, and I've been following the responses for a couple of days. I've also been reading and re-reading other posts on the forum about related topics, and one particular thing sticks out in my mind: how much you can't do if you don't have the Pastor supporting you. In this case, if the Pastor is allowing you to write the bulletin article on Latin in the first place, you at least have some support.