Why are the chants for the 15th and 16th Sundays inverted?
  • SrEleanor
    Posts: 26
    In the 1908 Graduale, the Introit for the Ninth Sunday after Pentecost is Ecce Deus
    and for the Tenth Sunday after Pentecost, Dum clamarem

    But in the 1974 Gradual, they are inverted, so that Dum clamarem comes first, on the 15th Sunday of the Year, and Ecce Deus is assigned to the Sixteenth Sunday.

    Can anyone please tell me why this change came about?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    And then the earlier ones are pushed back further a few Sundays. The Colloquium the past two years has fallen after Sunday XIII, Omnes gentes, so I know when I get home, the OF Mass is Suscepimus Deus, but I get to hear them again two and three weeks later in the EF.

    My guess is there was some manuscript evidence that suggested this was the oldest tradition. But it isn’t necessarily the case, nor is it wise to move texts around. My summer time, with one exception (today as I missed High Mass), revolves around the sung Propers. I mean, I already thibk of feast days instead of national holidays; that’s what you get when fall break is really All Saints break and neither federal holiday in September or October is observed by the students. Give me two years at at home and vacations near a Sung Mass, and I would know the cycle by heart.
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    I once asked such a question of the monks at Solesmes via email, and they responded. Give it a shot! (Then post here …)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Hi, SrEleanor:

    If it helps any in researching how this came about: the assignment of chants to calendar days was established in the Ordo Cantus Missae, whose first edition was issued in 1970. (You can download a copy from our friends at Watershed: http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2014/may/5/ordo-lectionum-missae-ordo-cantus-missae/ )

    It explains a few of the changes, but not many.
  • SrEleanor
    Posts: 26
    Hi @chonak, I've looked at the Ordo Cantus Missae and it give principles which may apply in this case, but it's not obvious.

    Thanks for the hint re Solesmes, @Felipe Gasper - it's worth a try. Sure, I'll let you know if I learn anything.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Sister,

    I think we need to look at the other issues in the calendar to come up with a rational answer to you question. Saints were moved around. Various Octaves were abolished. Whole seasons were extirpated. Vigils (for the most part) lost their distinctive status.

    "Finally, there must be no innovation, unless......"

    Evidently these things were necessary for the good of the faithful.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • BGP
    Posts: 219
    It's the Bugnini shuffle and its all through the 74 graduate. My guess is the monks shuffled to fit better with the readings of the new lectionary.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Would it have anything to do, at least as a residual matter, with the much earlier "shuffle" of propers that occurred when Trinity Sunday propers displaced the propers of the First Sunday after Pentecost?
  • BGP
    Posts: 219
    Graduale not graduate. Auto correct strikes again.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    If you make a typo on the forum, feel free to use the "Edit" link in the header of your comment to open it back up for editing.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Graduale not graduate. Auto correct strikes again.

    Yes, there's nothing like telling your choir they'll be singing a chant from the Graduate Romanov
    Thanked by 1SrEleanor
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Graduate Romanov

    image
    graduate-romanov.png
    1200 x 900 - 2M
    Thanked by 4gregp MarkThompson CHGiffen SrEleanor
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