Amazing. Does this mean, theoretically speaking, that a parish could have an anticipated EF Missa Cantata every Saturday evening?

Julie,

I'm not sure, but that would seem a logical conclusion: His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, allowed Catholics who couldn't assist at Mass on a Sunday to attend Mass on a Saturday evening.

Tomjaw,

Thank you for the elaboration of the topic.

God bless,

Chris

@ MatthewRoth

The CIC allows... not compels? I have not got the text to hand. Anyway a couple of questions.

Q. What Mass is said on the evening of the Feast of St. Peter and Paul when it falls on a saturday?

Q. What Mass would be said on the evening of the 15th August?

I am sure that a thread on this forum suggested that in the OF the Mass of SS. Peter and Paul would be said and not the Mass of the Sunday. Even though Vespers would have been said. Similarly most people would expect an evening Mass on the 15th to be the Mass of the Feast, even if 2nd Vespers may have be said publicly only a short while before. It is because of cases like these I suggest that evening Masses on the 14th would be of the Vigil (unless Vespers has been sung). But ad lib could be of the Feast if it is preferred.

No, the spirit of the EF rubrics would be to have only morning Mass ...

I would suggest that the Rubrics as written would expect a Conventual Mass of the Vigil after Terse / None. Other low Masses could be said in the morning in communities with more than one priest. What the rubrics expect and what their 'spirit' is are two different things. So while the Missale / Rubrics expect that Masses said on the 14th would be of the Vigil, but because they were not written with evening Masses in mind, particularly Masses said after 1st Vespers. So the spirit of the rubrics in my opinion expect that Mass would be of the Vigil.

While I am used to singing Vespers and Compline, I prefer not to use the timings of them in an argument particularly as many catholics will have no idea what I am talking about, especially as there are exceptions as in the two cases above. Anyway I did suggest that in places that celebrate Vespers it would be sensible that an evening Mass after the celebration of Vespers would be of the Feast.

Just because 'we' no longer fast, and so have little idea what a Vigil is, does not mean they no longer exist. (It also does not matter that most catholics think a vigil is an anticipated Mass of Sunday.) The question of the Mass of S. Maximilian in the EF has a few problems...

What Mass / Office (EF) would we use, Common of Martyrs?

What Rank is his feast (in the EF), and can it replace the Vigil or be commemorated?

Knowing S. Maximilian and his love for the BVM, would he be pleased that his feast would permanently replace the ancient Vigil Mass of the Assumption?

Yes, but diocesan law sometimes compels the anticipated Mass being used. So when Immaculate Conception falls on a holy day, evening OF Masses are of the Sunday of Advent because that is law for the diocese (yes, one could apply it, I think, to the EF, but don’t tell the bishops!). I use that and not Ss. Peter & Paul because that is not a HDO in America. Further, a feast is the evening prior (from noon onward) to midnight of the following day, so even if diocesan law binds to the Sunday Mass, it would still fulfill one’s obligation for the HDO (and a pastor ought to use this to get diocesan law changed when solemnities fall on Saturday).

The question of an evening Mass on the feast itself is silly. The 16th can’t be anticipated. It isn’t another solemnity that can be anticipated.


Regarding Kolbe, I assume the Common of Martyrs; the orations come from the new misssal, and the rest from the appropriate common. The rank is a good question; it seems we ought to treat new feasts like 3rd class feasts, unless they be a patron of a church, diocese, institute, etc. in which cases (and perhaps others) they would be raised to solemnities. John XXIII is impeded on October 11 because of the Maternity of Mary being II class. So his feast and the Ugandan martyrs in the EF are the same day.

Giving people an option to celebrate it in some way is a good thing. And in a scenario like this, even at Sung Masses according to the 1962 missal, I think the priest would be OK with two collects.

You are allowed three collects at Low Mass, so yes it is allowed in the 1962 missal.

Tomjaw, the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei in 1994 settled this for us. The orations come from the Pauline missal. http://saintbedestudio.blogspot.com/2007/03/ecclesia-dei-commission-decisions1.html?m=1


I can’t quite grasp why you draw in the scenario of someone anticipating S. Joachim on the evening of the 15th. AFAIK it is not allowed in the Latin church to anticipate any Mass, only those which are of obligation. One could still say an evening Mass on the 15th... A feast runs from the evening (12 noon!) before to midnight which begins the following day. Any Mass in that timeframe fulfills the obligation. Any Mass after 4 pm may anticipate the feast (unless it have an evening vigil like the Pentecost vigil and of course the Easter vigil...). 1st Vespers in these USA may be said (historically, anyways) after 4 pm, which makes anticipation neat. And time Masses and the praying of Vespers around each other, but keeping in mind canonically Vespers does not close the feast.

I don’t have a problem with Mass of the day before a feast or the anticipated Mass when it is a holy day of obligation. Canon law allows for that choice, and either could be to the advantage of the faithful.

The PCED also did not tell us the two important pieces of information RANK and which Common Mass. As Jahaza has said these are private replies, These replies are problematic as the Latin Mass Society (LMS) has found, where the reply to the England and Wales bishops was contradicted in the following answer to a carefully worded question by the LMS.

Re 14th...
Sorry I did not understand that your argument had limits attached... "So on a Feast day as appointed by relevant authority to be a day (like a Sunday) when the Mass Proper could be anticipated to the afternoon or evening of the previous day (effectually after Vespers), that this practice of the OF could also be applied to the EF."

Fair enough that would be o.k. BUT this practice could have problems in the E.F.

1. What happens when we have two feasts of this type on consecutive days... Which Mass would be said in the afternoon / evening of the first feast, would this rely on the rank? I think the Mass in the evening of the first feast would cover the obligation for both feasts.

2. What happens when a local First class feast may have a higher rank than the anticipated OF feast of the following day?

3. What about conflicts between local OF calendars and the Universal EF...

Here in England our bishops have asked the EF communities to celebrate the major feasts on the same day as the OF. So Epiphany, Ascension, and Corpus Christi are all moved to the following Sunday, they expect the E.F. communities to have External Solemnities on these Sundays, this does not cause too many problems unless another First Class feast falls on the Sunday within the octave of those feasts. But another thing they do does cause a bigger problem, Days of obligation such as St Peter and Paul, Assumption, And All Saints when they fall on Saturday or a Monday are moved to the Sunday... So when All Saints falls on a Monday, it 'must' be moved to the last Sunday of October, hmm Christ the King, I think not. Best to ignore them!

So my suggestion (EF only) is to always have the Mass of the day (even in the evening), and only to anticipate if First Vespers has been publicly sung before the Mass. Not including obvious examples such as Maunday Thursday, Easter Vigil etc.

The obligation to hear Mass on certain days tells us nothing about what Proper must be used to fulfil the obligation.