LURKERS? Interested in reviewing? A Catholic Organist's Guide to Playing Hymns
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    We will be sending out some PDF's. Please contact me if interested.

    Thanks - reply to noel@frogmusic.com

  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    Send it to me.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Send me your email and it will be on its way!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    you have mine already, but (and for anyone else)
    adam.michael.wood
    //at//
    gmail.com
  • barnabus1898barnabus1898
    Posts: 91
    Email sent!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    How do Catholic organists play hymns? The local AGO - otherwise known as the assisted living facility since members are mostly ancient - has held hymn playing workshops. Unfortunately, they were dominated by Presbyterians who seem to have their own style, as do the Episcopalians. What are you proposing and how does it differ? My own approach for over 50 years has been to play as I da*n well please.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Pay no attention to the naysayers, Noel. From what I've seen it's an excellent resource and I for one am in full support of your efforts.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    me!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I would like to see it.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    It is a good guide for hymn playing. It contains many techniques most of us have learned over time, and don't think about anymore. Now we just play, or at least I do. For someone learning how to play hymns, this would be a good resource and a good place to start.

    Granted, instruments differ from place to place, and congregational expectations also differ, not to mention clergy expectations. I have been told to keep descants to a minimum, since it is believed they throw the congregation off by obscuring the melody line. Do they? YMMV and all situations are different.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Mike Shawaluk
    Posts: 58
     
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    My own (somewhat extensive) experience with descants is somewhat similar to Mike's. Single descants usually are only underlain with the text for the last stanza, possibly one more stanza for a hymn with several stanzas. Just as many directors ask their choir to sing unison on the first stanza (or two or three) of every hymn (which I deprecate, especially for well known hymns) before breaking into parts (which represents the best of hymn singing), it may be that men (and altos) would do well to sing the melody with a descant, so as to reinforce the congregational singing (although for a well known hymn this might be unnecessary).

    I have composed several "double" descants, wherein each descant is used separately on earlier stanzas, and then both are sung simultaneously on the final stanza. The effect, especially for a longer hymn with several stanzas, can be and is often quite uplifting.
  • Mike Shawaluk
    Posts: 58
     
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    It is common in some churches for the choir to sing UNISON on first and last - so the organist is free to use a free harmonization on the last verse. And this would also leave the men and Altos singing the melody when Sopranos take off on a descant.

  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,424
    My experience with descants is that the congregation are thrilled by them and sing even better! As was suggested above, it is fitting that they be reserved for certain appropriate stanzas.
    Especially on major feasts they are expected.

    (Anyone, in or out of holy orders, who doesn't like them is a grinch.)
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Gaudium MatthewRoth
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    My parish music director executes descants so well that I stop singing and take in the sopranos for a few words before resuming my own singing.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    It can't hurt to have a guide for hymn playing. In contrast to literature and improvisation, you can't really practice the interaction with the congregation until you play at a Service (Mass/Vespers/Benediction). At least knowing on what you should concentrate might be helpful (of course a part of the hymn-related stuff can be trained with a teacher).
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    How do Catholic organists play hymns?


    CharlesW's comment above reminds me of my audition at my current (Anglican) position. After I played for two trial services, the rector was approached by a retired organist in the congregation (who is now an Anglican abbot!), who said of my hymn playing:

    "He doesn't play like a Roman. Neither does he play like an Anglican. Nor a Presbyterian. I'd say he plays like a Lutheran - very steady, a little fast, very good. But not like a Roman, they're so sloppy!"

    Interestingly, though my first teacher was an Anglican-turned-Presbyterian, most of my formative studies were at a Lutheran college!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    Gavin, I never had a Catholic organ professor. One was Presbyterian and the other Methodist. I think each organist develops his own style, although certain denominational trends can be noticeable. Perhaps the literature is a factor, as well.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Many organists, especially those who attend name conservatories, never get to study hymn playing.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,424
    Among the first things I was taught was playing hymnody. I was expected to be able to play the treble, alto, and tenor on the manuals, and the bass in the pedals; also, to transpose, play the cf on a solo stop in the treble, the alto, the tenor, or in the bass on the pedals. When moving the cf around, I was expected to play the other voices on a second manual as written, not just to make up some chords. This was in addition to changing registration to match text in successive stanzas and improvise alternate harmonies in four parts as well as with added voices. I have played in Catholic, Lutheran, and Episcopal churches, and have never failed to attract the comment from priest, bishop, pastor, or visiting professor that 'you are Anglican, aren't you'. There can be no higher compliment about one's hymn-playing.

    (I might hasten to add that all this is not just for the organist's self-entertainment, or for to show off as if he were what some persons would call showing off and concertising. The more competent and imaginative your hymn playing the greater and more hearty will be the response of your congregation and choir; not to mention the glory of the worship that happens in the Lord's house.)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    MJO, this is truly the goal of those who wish to perfect their abilities as a church organist.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    I once found this book on archive.org and I think it could be a valuable resource on - amongst other topics - hymn-playing, although it is intended for Anglican organists:
    The Organ Accompaniment of the Church Services
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I once found this book


    Thanks! That book looks well worth reading.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    Scoring through archive.org I recently stumbled across this book:
    Modern Organ Accompaniment
    I am not nearly through, but it seems - among other things - to elaborate in Chapter IV on the things mentioned above by M. Jackson Osborn.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    MJO: Catholic in the Anglican tradition, united yet not absorbed...
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Adam Wood
  • PhatFlute
    Posts: 219
    Dear, what is the catholic heritage of hymn sings ? When I visit a church whose catholic, find that the hymns sung sont weak ( humble, shy, soft ). Are the hymns done better in the Americas or Europpe ? Is Daniel roth a good hymns player/ singer ? For example,
    Ph
  • artdob
    Posts: 24
    Noel,

    Thanks for the opportunity to review and for addressing the topic.

    http://azurehillsmusic.com/a-catholic-organists-guide-to-playing-hymns/
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