New Musical Direction at Small Parish
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Hello everyone!

    I'm a new member here, and I have really enjoyed reading the threads from the last several years...

    I'm a trained Jazz musician (brass) who moved out of the big city to the middle of nowhere... Not many gigs here.
    I have recently started a weekly class on "Historic and Traditional Catholic Music" at my Church, and it would appear that I might be pressed into service as a sort of MD. It's not what I had in mind necessarily, but my priest just told me I could buy books and other materials and he'd reimburse me... Is that what we call a mandate? :)

    I have a solid foundation in Jazz ear training from college, which consisted of conducting & singing solfege, Tonal and Jazz harmony, sightreading, etc.... (I am NOT a good keys player... but I want to really work on my organ chops now...)

    Starting in May of this year, I've been offering my class to any parishioners who want to come... We began by listening to Ambrosian chant, early gregorian pieces, early polyphony, up to Mozart and Bach. I began by offering a "Survey of Music", where we mostly listened to music and talked about the good old days of Catholic Music... I am trying to offer a fresh start for them now musically, without spending too much time talking about our present "Massive Cremation" and all that. Only positivity is welcome!

    Now, we are working on material.

    I started explaining to them that we have not been "singing the mass"... and we began working on PDFs printed from Simple English Propers. They were very, VERY excited about that. We are now working on a good choral mass setting, JMO's Issac Jogues Mass... We love the easy lines with the potential for beautiful harmony once we are capable. (and the copyright!)

    This all said, I am now looking to purchase some quality material... I firmly believe that our best first step forward is to make sure that all parish musicians know about the importance of the Propers. So, I am looking for 15-20 copies of Simple English Propers in hardcover... What is the best way to purchase them? Amazon? Lulu? Is the organ accompaniment for SEP by Ryan Dingess good? Should I get both volumes of them spiral bound from Lulu?

    What would be a good second step? We are currently using Breaking Bread and CBW Hymnals. Personally, I would prefer to box the latter and burn the former, but I doubt that will happen. Should I get some copies of the Parish Book of Chant? We have a new priest coming who (I have heard) loves Latin, and I really want to start to work towards being able to sing the EF.

    Any help and/or prayers are welcome! Thanks!



  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    The PBC (Parish Book of Chant) is more useful and important than 95% of all the books written about music in the past 100 years, IMHO.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I second the PBC. It's a fantastic book. If you need to invest in a hymnal, you can use the St. Michael Hymnal, Vatican II Hymnal, or as others on this forum will recommend: the St. Isaac Jogues Missal.
    Thanked by 2Jazzer canadash
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    So, I am looking for 15-20 copies of Simple English Propers in hardcover.


    USe the free PDFs of the SEP and use your money to buy the Lumen Christi Simple Gradual (Choir Edition). The chants are composed by the same person (Adam Bartlett), the translations are better and the melodies are much more interesting (but just as easy to sing). Also, the LCSG has several chanted ordinaries, which are super important and should form the basis for congregational repertoire.

    http://www.illuminarepublications.com/
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I personally use SEP, so I can vouch for its quality as well. Right now, I am looking at implementing the Graduale Simplex, so I'm also using Aristotle Esguerra's Choral Graduale Simplex because it has nearly the same melodic content as the GS, but it's in English.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Yes, it's time to move past the Simple English Propers... we have the better option now: www.illuminarepublications.com

    The SEPs served their purpose for a while, but there's no need to use them anymore. The LCSG and forthcoming LCG are much better since the melodies were written for the text - unlike the SEP which just follows a generic formula.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Also, thank you for Jazzercising the forum.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    At least he didn't prancercize it. Wait, that should have been in regular font.
  • I am surprised that amongst the hymnals recommended above the Lumen Christi Hymnal was not mentioned. This would be worthy of very, very, serious consideration.
    And, not to be overlooked is The Catholic Hymnbook, English, Gracewing Publications, which is far superior to any American Catholic publication.

    The Lumen Christi Hymnal is unique in that it contains about 170 very well-chosen hymns and tunes useful for Sundays and solemnities throughout the year, plus another several hundred hymns from the divine office, which would be useful for both the office and the mass. These latter are set to the plainchant tunes as in Liber Hymnarius. The translations are untampered-with originals with no savaging of texts for to placate gender nuts. The only unfortunate happenstance is that the plainchant is in modern noteheads rather than chant notation - but this would doubtless have appeal to the weak-hearted. (I hope that you get this book!)

    Godspeed!
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    You are blessed to have a congregation excited about this.

    I second what has been said about LC Simple Gradual and the hymnals.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    So far is this all within the small group of interested people? Their excitement sounds good, but I hope you'll plan to make changes slowly when it comes to the parish's Sunday Masses. Get your priest singing the dialogues for a while.
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    image

    Thanks for your responses!

    Yes, this is all within the small group, the enthusiasm... I realize it will take a lot of work developing the propers for the weekend masses.
    I don't really know how people will receive it. There is a really good post on "Views from the Choir Loft" about Musical Green Eggs and Ham People think they love something simply because it is what they are used to.

    I intend to offer something which is a significant step up in difficulty, but also in the reward. After we sang thru the propers at our class, everyone KNEW that it was good stuff. We talked about how best to implement it, and we all agreed that it would be very unpastoral to unleash the propers on the masses and eliminate the songs they are used to.

    I am not currently a cantor, and do not have a place in the rotation for weekend masses... It will be hard for me to start getting the priest singing the dialogues at this point... My group and I are working towards being able to sing masses over the next couple of months, and when we are ready, our priest has said we can take a mass whenever I think we are ready. We will need printed programs at the very least, since I do not see us having the resources to put the propers in everyone's hands otherwise.

    One main goal has been to show my group that with a good 2 hour rehearsal once a week, the propers for the weekend mass can be read and learned. I am going to push this standard, I think, and invite all the other parish musicians to pick them up too... With well-sung propers, I am confident that the congregation will see the value in the change, and embrace it.
  • dhalkjdhalkj
    Posts: 61
    I'd recommend doing one piece of chant such as the Communio at every mass rather than wall to wall chant at one mass you're allowed to "take over." First of all there's more chance it will be sung musically and well. Second, if you're going to move into being Music Director you have to get to know people at every mass and give them a chance to know you. So give everybody in the parish a taste of chant rather than overwhelming one particular mass.
    If you want the challenge of a whole mass, pick one without a regular constituency: a special evening mass for Sacred Heart for example, that is already inclined to appeal to the devout who will likely appreciate your efforts the most. Or the weekday mass on first Fridays. Check out the schedule of Solemnities falling on weekdays for the year. These things will mean sacrifices have to be made by your group such as attending all the Sunday masses on a weekend or coming on a weekday evening. This is how a group shows they have a heart to serve others and are not just a special interest group demanding attention for themselves.
    Good luck. Sounds like a great vocation.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Good for you! I am thoroughly impressed at your spirit!

    Slow and steady wins the race. Have a goal set for the end of three years. It is amazing how quickly three years rolls by in the church music world.

  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Some ideas:

    1.) Look at what has been done before. Keep what is good, transition things away from general popular rubbish. You don't want to change anything too suddenly and end up with the parish and the clergy off-side!

    2.) Pick a good congregational mass setting. The parish might already be using a good one, but otherwise, look around for one.

    3.) Take the ICEL Chant Mass seriously, as it is intended as the common "Missal Tone" mass for the English-speaking world. In fact, encourage the congregation to learn it so that they can sing it on weekday masses when there is no choir or organist present.

    4.) Don't go full-out on chant straight away. If your parish is used to the "hymn sandwich" you'll need to ease them into it. A good way to ease the parish into it is to retain the entrance hymn, chant the offertory antiphon, then sing a hymn or motet and use the communion antiphon (with maybe just a few psalm verses) and then the hymn. Pick a good occasion to switch to chant introits, such as first Sunday of Advent or Lent, and even then you can have introits some Sundays and processional hymns on others.

    5.) Don't use lots of Latin straight away. If you're from one of the parishes that used to have guitars and tambourines until they realised that no-one was under 45 in the "Youth Band" you'll best look into English Plainsong - ICEL Chant Mass is a good way to ease people in.

    6.) Sing "Kyrie eleison" instead of "Lord have mercy" whenever the music presents the opportunity. I made the switch one Sunday about 18 months ago. No-one noticed, no-one said a thing about it, so I just kept doing it.

    7.) Have some "regular favourites" in the hymn selection. The sort of hymns you know everyone will sing with some enthusiasm. Popular choices include: "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name"; "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty"; "All People That on Earth Do Dwell"; "Let All Mortal Flesh"; "The Lord's My Shepherd" (that last one is actually about communion more than "shepherds")

    8.) Have some regular "seasonal hymns." Eg. This year I used "O Sons and Daughters" for the first few Sundays of Easter, and added "Thine Be the Glory" on the 4th Sunday of Easter. From Ascension Sunday, I use "Alleluia, Sing to Jesus" every few weeks up to and including Christus Rex. From Epiphany to Lent, I use "Love Divine, All Loves Excelling" to the same tune. "Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus" is the Seasonal hymn for Advent, with "O Come, Emmanuel" only on the 3rd and 4th Sundays.

    9.) Use the same hymns on the same feast days. I know this can get boring, but congregations eventually develop this association, and start to understand that the church has its times and seasons each with their particular music to look forward too. I always look forward to "Firmly I Believe and Truly" on Trinity Sunday for Example.

    10.) Pick a setting of the Lord's Prayer and use it at every mass. You'll find in the Lumen Christi Missal, the "Australian Chant Tone" which is what every parish church in Australia uses. No-one ever seems to complain that they get bored with it. This would be the one that I recommend, but you might want to use the similar ICEL version.

    11.) Sing the Responsorial Psalms (should really be called the "Gradual Psalm") every Sunday, and use simple ones that the congregation can pick up on easily. The psalm verses should be simple, Gelineau, Bevenot, Meinrad Abbey and Gregorian Breviary tones are all good and work well for English (though some of the Breviary Tones work better in English than others)

    12.) Sing the Alleluia (or the appropriate acclamation during Lent) and it's verse every week. Use the Easter Tone VI during Easter, the O Filii et Filiae one for the latter part of Easter, and find a few others. I like to use the Tone 8 Melismatic Alleluia, but you really must persist with that one before congregations learn it.

    13.) The sound of the organ should change with the passing of the seasons. For example, In Lent I do not use any reeds or mixtures, and as much as possible use only the 8' and 4' stops as much as they are necessary to support the singing. Makes for a big return of the reeds at Easter. Something similar applies to Advent and Christmas.

    14.) Get children involved - start a "Cherub Choir" where they can learn some simple hymns and chants. This is an investment for the future where they'll be used to traditional church music and will be less inclined to want to start a rock band.

    15.) PRAY, PRAY, PRAY and when you're done PRAY SOME MORE! Invoke the intercessions of the company of Saints and all the choirs of angels. People will try your patience sooner or later, but persist in the faith that what you are doing is for God and for God alone. Did I mention the most important thing? PRAY!
  • I won't write fifteen pieces of advice. I'll just repeat what I've said when similar questions have arisen: plan your long-term goal by getting on your knees, and then plan the small steps as if each one is the last, so that whatever you get done before the buzz-saw arrives is, at least, on the right road.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    I'm a little slow to respond, but to Jazzer and any other forum members who are interested in buying CMAA books in bulk, please contact me or Matt Sciba at books@musicasacra.com about buying books directly. We can offer discounts for bulk quantities and savings on shipping. For 5 or less books, it is about the same as buying at Amazon with free shipping... for larger quantities, we can offer you some savings.

    This goes for SEP, PBC, Simple Choral Gradual (SCG) etc. -- all our publications.

    Thanked by 2CHGiffen nun_34
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Thanks so much for all your suggestions, folks...

    I have one rather urgent need: I am formatting a mass card (landscape letter size, folded in half) and I need a copy of the Robert Snow "Our Father"... We are going to be singing the Mass in Honour of St Isaac Jogues, by JMO... he didn't include the Our Father in the Jogues missal because it was already in the missal down there... the problem is that we don't have it up here in Canada.... I need it to be one page long, and include the concluding doxology.

    I have the choral version from ccwatershed, but it is SATB and on 2 pages. I've found it in the American version of the Roman Missal, but it doesn't include the doxology.

    We are working towards introducing a new Ordinary at my parish this weekend (13th Sunday of Ordinary Time), and we will also be chanting the Introit and Communion Propers. We're very ambitious, I know :)

    Thanks in advance for all your help

  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    image
    Snow Our Father.pdf
    183K
    Thanked by 1Jazzer
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Thanks for that, ronkrisman!

    Here is my finished copy... nothin too fancy.


    We will make our debut singing this mass tomorrow in a nursing home for St Jean Baptiste day... a chance to sing the gloria on a weekday :)

    The Introit for tomorrow, from the SEP is absolutely beautiful.

    Pray for us please!
    Isaac Jogues Pew Card.pdf
    1M
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Your PDF has me wondering, Jazzer. Does the particular calendar for the dioceses of Canada list St. Isaac Jogues as "Canadian Martyr"?

    The calendar for the dioceses of the USA list him and his martyred companions as "North American Martyrs."
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    You should know by now that when YOU call something "North American", y'all really mean "Canadian" :)

    Just kidding.... We have loads of schools and churches up here called "Canadian Martyrs".. with St. Jean de Brebeuf being the most commonly named one... Brebeuf High School was my school's arch-rival.

    I really don't know how our calendar lists them... I will find out though!
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    OK it's September 26th up here... The Feast of "St Jean de Brebeuf, St Isaac Jogues and Companions"
    CCCB Liturgical Calendar
  • Jazzer -
    I must say that the Gloria you are using is far superior to the one in our Roman missal.
    It really flows and sings much more naturally what with the placement of text accents and melodic shape. Especially well treated is the rather awkward '...and peace to people of good will'. This is a challenge for graceful music-text marriage and most settings fail utterly. What is the provenance of it?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    @Jazzer: Are you familiar with this:
    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/uploads/2011/10/CIS_5.3-1 Gloria, chant (choral setting).pdf

    Sorry, I don't think it looks pretty.
    I would like to change ours to this one in the fall.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    the Gloria you are using...
    This is the Gloria from Jeff Ostrowski's Mass in Honor of Ralph Sherwin, which we are also using this Summer. I hope the hard copy of Jazzer's bulletin includes a page with the appropriate acknowledgements!
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    +1 for Anonymous's Canadian Glory to God which @canadash reposted above.

  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    I hope the hard copy of Jazzer's bulletin includes a page with the appropriate acknowledgements!
    Go to the second page of jazzer's PDF, then either rotate the view or turn your monitor upside down, and then you will see "Ordinary composed by Jeff Ostrowski", "Practice videos and scores at ccwatershed.org/jogues" and, finally "Order of the Mass from the Roman Missal". Is this enough?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Is this enough?


    It could have been in all caps.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen eft94530
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    @canadash,

    No, I'm not familiar at all with that choral Gloria... It looks nice, and we'll probably try it at some point in the future. For now we're working in unison land, with a mass setting that the congregation can grasp quickly, and which we will be able to add harmony to as it matures.

    Gosh, I must say that there is a big load off the choir's shoulders when we use the Simple English Propers.

    For a 2 hour rehearsal, we spend probably a solid 45 minutes chanting psalms. They are actually really good now at chanting the psalms at a nice steady pulse... I've stopped waving my arms around like a loser so much too. :)

    I'm ordering copies of Lumen Christi Simple Gradual Choir Edition for everyone, and also a few copies of Offertory by Jon Naples.

    We can't change everything overnight (nor will I try), but to have the hard copies available to all the other musicians in the parish will be a really serious step forward.

    We are starting to taste the fruits of our work, and it is pretty sweet!
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    OK... I need an answer to this.. Maybe Adam Bartlett can even chime in if he's not too busy.

    The stuff that he is working on now, all the PDFs that are downloadable on Lumen Christi... What (and why) the difference between that and SEP, and is that going to be replacing his Simple Gradual? what is the difference, and should I wait to purchase the simple gradual choir editions until the new publication is out?

    At the moment, I am copying out the SEPs for each of my target masses. This is going well, but we want to find some way to help the congregation to sing the antiphons. We will be putting them in the bulletin, I think, but really want to explore getting solid books in the pews if at all possible. Now then... will the LC Simple Gradual PDFs still be available once the new accompaniment is published? Will the new versions match up with what is in the LC Missal still?

    Sorry for all the questions... this is all a little vague for me atm.

    Thanks!
  • 9.) Use the same hymns on the same feast days. I know this can get boring, but congregations eventually develop this association, and start to understand that the church has its times and seasons each with their particular music to look forward too. I always look forward to "Firmly I Believe and Truly" on Trinity Sunday for Example.


    Boring to many church musicians, but soothing and comforting to congregations.

    The moment that I hear a church musician expressing that she/he is bored with something the congregation sings, I mentally see a congregation that does not sing because they never get time to fall in love with a hymn or Mass setting and have it become their own for life.
  • Hildegard
    Posts: 30
    This is a little anal retentive, but I actually have a large Excel sheet with which I keep track of when hymns were sung and at which Mass so I have an idea of what the congregation knows and how often they've sung it. Since I'm at every Mass, they tend to all blur together and it's amazing how often I think we just sang something but it was actually six months ago. It also beats shuffling through all my ordos each time I wonder.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Not anal retentive, but essential. Protestant churches store and then hard bind their bulletins each year. Makes it a lot easier for new clergy and music people to know hat has been done before.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,315
    No, it is good...I have heard of parishes that where the new music director chose good hymns, but because the records were not particularly thorough. they were unfamiliar to the congregation.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Is the organ accompaniment for SEP by Ryan Dingess good?


    Splendid.
    Thanked by 1Jazzer
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    Yes, it is good, and practical!
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Forgive the pointedness of this question, but isn't sticking to what the congregation knows and loves the antithesis of accomplishing true Sacred Music? Especially when it comes to Mass Ordinary settings: if theyve learned, can sing, and love the Mass of Creation, then you can't very well introduce Mass XI or something like it.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Boring to many church musicians, but soothing and comforting to congregations.


    Yup. Someplace or other, someone has proposed that the typical congregation can learn and use only about 60-70 hymns (10-12 of them Christmas carols that they've known since their youth.)

    After that, it's all driven by musician-boredom syndrome.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    To CK: one introduces new stuff (Introit, Offertory, Communion propers) and new/better Ordinaries at a relatively slow rate. In a small parish assignment, I got to the new Ordinary and the Offertory & Communion chants after 12 months of old stuff--but I had purged the worst of the 'old stuff' immediately.

    Kept the "entrance hymn" and also used a "communion hymn" as a reflection post-communion song.

    Didn't get to the Introit; the pastor was re-located and the revolution came. They hired a nice, incompetent, replacement who works for nothing.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    They hired a nice, incompetent, replacement who works for nothing.


    Ugh.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    To CK: one introduces new stuff (Introit, Offertory, Communion propers) and new/better Ordinaries at a relatively slow rate. In a small parish assignment, I got to the new Ordinary and the Offertory & Communion chants after 12 months of old stuff--but I had purged the worst of the 'old stuff' immediately.


    I absolutely concur with you, Dad, on Ordinary settings. Boredom on the part of the musicians should not be a primary factor prompting a move to another one. We've been with Jernberg for over a year, and it wasn't for the availability of Richard Rice's new SATB Missa de Angelis, I'd keep it going into the fall. I call this the "Happy Birthday Rule." You don't make up a new ditty and text and then expect everyone to sing it on your day.
    OTOH, I see no compelling reason to limit the selection of Option four hymns based upon familiarity. Congregational participation with these is not our responsibility. MJBallou nailed it a few years back in an article in SACRED MUSIC, many just won't sing because they're more inclined to the other guy do it. You could program "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" at the front or back end of a Mass every Sunday, and at least half of any given congregation will sit on their larynxes. Therefore, if I choose "Lord, You give the Great Commission" I'm not thinking, "Darnit, they won't sing 'Abbot's leigh,' I'm thinking, "Yeah, that works for disciples heading out in pairs." In simpler terms, once I determine what constitutes the best tools in the hymnal toolbox, I'll use the right tool at the right time. The PIPs are always, truly invited and well-supported. Deciding to join in is on them. Besides, every hymn had to have a premier at one time. There's gold in them thar hills that many DM's and choirmasters don't bother looking for.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Melo, I wish you could explain that to a few priests that I know.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    It's really not a difficult concept. Priests ought to have been taught to think critically, right? Uh, if not undergrad, then at major seminary.
    Assuming that even conservative new priests don't want to upturn apple carts for the sole singing of Propers and Ordinary, they should know that hymn texts must be consonant with both orthodoxy and poetic worthiness, yes?Does he mean we actually have to go page to page in Breaking Bread? Pass the scotch, deacon. That also implies that these same priests should have a concern as to whether this or that melody serves a worthy text meant to be sung by his flock at worship, right? "Uh, Mabel (parish secretary), could you find out if any of our families have children taking piano lessons? No, don't spend too much time looking, I'm just curious."
    Then, if he can't find a literate soul in his parish who can play a hymn melody in time, or advise the priest as to the merit of a certain text to a certain melody, then he has two choices, right? Put an add in NCR (either one) or CalCatholic with ridiculously demanding job descriptions (must be E. Power Biggs at the console) for $18K per annum, or have another scotch. How far along do we think that priest will actually go along in this process to find even the minimally competent arbiter for hymn selection? One phone call to the one liturgical geek seminarian he remembers from years ago, or the helpful folks up in the chancery. It's like an arrest, only one phone call allowed. Or will he opt for the Knoxville/Dad29 option- appoint the first illiterate volunteer who wants to sang fer Jesus, 'specially if'n he gets himself his own durn microphone! Quite simple, really.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, I think that sums up the whole problem quite nicely. Lack of competent people in DM positions is on my list of the 7 barriers to Sacred Music.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Or will he opt for the Knoxville/Dad29 option- appoint the first illiterate volunteer who wants to sang fer Jesus, 'specially if'n he gets himself his own durn microphone! Quite simple, really.


    What on earth are you raving about? That drought must be causing dementia. LOL.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Oh, it was just something Noel mentioned years ago.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Oh, it was just something Noel mentioned years ago.


    That explains it. LOL.
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Quick!

    Is there any way to (without breaking the law or spending any money) get a good trombone leadsheet for Mass of Creation?

  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Or euphonium? lol :)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Calling Mike O'Connor.
    Nevermind.
    Why?