GIA Publications
  • Hi. I read on a blog that GIA is a privately owned corporation. DOes anyone know if this is true? Also, when did it cease being a non-profit? I thought GIA was originally a non-profit. Thanks.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    My understanding (without evidence) is that GIA Publications is a corporation while OCP is a non-profit.
  • Yes, this is correct. GIA (formerly known as the Gregorian Institute of America, when its home offices were in my hometown of Toledo, OH), is a for-profit corporation. Once when I was talking to Robert Batastini, who is now retired but was senior editor and V.P., he told me that it was because of their for-profit status that they were able to carry a wider variety of music and serve as the sole American distributor for the music of the RSCM.

    OCP (formerly known as Oregon Catholic Press, and before that it had a different name that indicated it was the official publisher of catechetical materials for the diocese of Portland) I believe is now also a for-profit corporation, or at least has restructured to be something other than an entirely NFP organization. World Library Publications/Joseph Paluch is also NFP.

    This would be simple to check, as most states now have online databases of the corporations licensed to do business in that state, and typically the public information will include their status (501c3, etc.). WLP and GIA are both in Illinois (Schiller Park and Chicago respectively) and OCP is in Oregon.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    OCP used to be the "Catholic Truth Society of Oregon". Laugh it up.
  • (Howls of derisive laughter).
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Gregorian Institute of America! need to change their name too. How about Contemporary Religious Inst. Of America.
    (CRIA) They could make more money.
  • Dave
    Posts: 64
    GIA seems to be ruled in part by snobby eclectics. "Worship III" has some rather pleasant Mass settings, but some bizarre eclectic hymns and, of course, "inclusive" language.
  • Yeah . . . inclusive language that includes everything but sound theology.
  • I miss the older version of the Worship III hymnal (before the ghastly new translations totally wrecked the venerable hymns). I agree that Gregorian shouldn't be a part of their name anymore. However, they do have some good settings by Richard Prolux (sp?). I love his Community Mass setting and miss hearing it. At least, GIA is slightly better than OCP because it does have some Latin within its catalogue. I just wish they would ditch Haugen and Haas.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Does anyone know the current owner of GIA? In other words, the one who profits from the sales?
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    One thing bothers me in those hymnals is that many chants are harmonized in 4 parts and in 4/4 time. (singing every note like a military march, because the louder, the better singing in the church, and think chant is not so pretty. Where's the beauty of singing chant?) People start to forget the sound of the chant. Why they cannot leave the chants as they are? They should also keep chant notation, and have the singers at least notice it's different, and the MDS can help people with it. The more they see it, the more they will feel comfortable.
    Comfy + easy =joy in today' culture
    (comfy and easy come after the hard work)
    Sorry off the topic, again.
  • Jeff, you ask a good question. I don't think it's publicly traded, therefore I believe it's what's called "closely held." My guess is that there's a board of directors, etc., and that profits go to things like keeping their stable of composers paid with retainers of some sort, rather than them being paid on a per-composition basis.

    benedictgal: GIA will never "ditch" Haugen, Haas and Joncas.

    I once spoke at length with Bob Batastini; I was "interviewing" him for a paper I was writing for a church music seminar I was taking in college. He said that it was thanks to the heavy volume of sales of music from the Haugen/Haas/Joncas et. al., crowd of "rainmaker" composers that GIA was able to sell the more traditional music at all. His whole point was that, like it or not, the church music "industry" was consumer-driven, and until the market for sacro-pop and praise 'n worship stuff dried up, they would continue publishing and marketing it. Sad, really. He was so deeply entrenched in the "liturgical-industrial complex" that his company and the others had created that he didn't see just how destructive it had all been to the state of music in the Church. This, I might add, is what for me makes their monopoly on copyrights for ICEL texts so troubling. Which makes me think out loud, if they're a "for profit" corporation, and they alone are controlling the copyrights for these texts, texts which need to be accessible to more than just their stable of composers, does this not constitute a violation of the federal antitrust laws? Dare I even mention the federal RICO statues? I'm no lawyer, but worked as a paralegal and had extensive training in the various areas of law, and this just doesn't seem to pass the "smell test."

    BTW, shortly after arriving in my current parish, I re-introduced the Proulx "Community Mass" (Sanctus/Mem. Acc./Amen/Agnus Dei only) to my congregation, and I actually received an e-mail from a parishioner thanking me for bringing it back. I've also eliminated the use of several others ("No Greater Love" Mass of Joncas and "Mass of Remembrance" of Haugen, to name two), and apart from one or two crusty aging hippies who objected to the greater use of the organ at Mass after my arrival, nobody has complained.
  • David, thank you for this outstanding analysis. It is certainly right that the low-brow music subsidizes the good stuff, a fact which goes a long way to explaning how it is that the actual employees of these publishers can privately express such disgust for their main products while still retaining their sense that they are doing the right thing. It's like a publishing group that produces trash fiction plus a handful of scholarly volumes of poetry. The trash is the benefactor and the poetry is the beneficiary. On these grounds, they figure that they are doing good work, since the good material--they reason--would never see the light of day lest they fob off the bad stuff on stupid consumers. So it is.

    And you are right that they do not see how destructive this is. Most Catholics believe that these corporate entities, which are driven by profit considerations, are publishing on behalf of the Church. Catholics trust them to do what is right, whereas if Wal-Mart made Missalettes, people would NOT similarly trust the output (however, they would be much cheaper!).

    The copyright/royalty/exclusive use racket is what gets my goat the most. This is a scam, and a very evil one that should be immediately smashed and destroyed forever by the Bishops and the Vatican.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I am not convinced that the "trash" sold by major publishers was not pushed.

    If you force-feed a duck for forty years on lithium, the duck may get used to it, and after forty years, the duck may end up "liking" it --- because it was pushed on him.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I really disagree with the idea that the current musical trash was forced on anyone. People like to be entertained. People of a "certain generation" enjoy faux folk music (or should we just call that whole genre "faux music"?). I don't know that anyone played guitar for Mass with Dan Schutte holding a gun to their heads. The simple truth is that people thought moving on to that style was progress over "Jesus My Lord My God My All". They were wrong.

    History shows that to be very much a grassroots movement. It wasn't until the 80s that the movement in place became commercialized.
  • It's important to note that composers writing music for the service of the Church before the advent of copyright were paid as church musicians, not on a per-work/royalty basis. While Palestrina was probably paid a fee by the printers of his works, he made his living as a Vatican/Lateran musician. We need to be more explicit about rejecting the works of composers such as Haugen who stand explicitly and purposefully outside the Catholic Church while making enormous amount of money from faithful Catholics. We similarly need to reject works that exist only to sell un-needed commercial publications, whether or not the composers are Catholics.

    The liturgical text copyright situation is diabolical.
  • You said it!

    The history of intellectual property is in four stages

    prior to 1500: nothing like IP existed anywhere on the planet in all human history
    1500s: invented by the state for censorship and enforcement of political loyalty
    1800s: used by artists/inventors/writers to exclude competitive art/inventions/literature
    1900s: used by corporate conglomerates to enjoy state-protected monopoly revenue at the expense of artists/writers/inventors/consumers/society
  • Gavin, Jeffrey wrote a phenomenal article on this very thing several years ago about how poorly-educated (and often either poorly or overly-compensated depending on your point of view) musicians in the Catholic churches around the country have been led by the nose for years by the likes of the liturgical-industrial "big three" publishers.

    One only need look as far as any parish that has been using OCP's "Bustin' Bread" or "Mucus Issue/Today's Missile" to see just how far the devastation goes. They subscribe to these services, then receive "planning mags" that guide them through the process of selecting every bit of music used, all of course from the publisher. They even go so far as to include their own little bits of propaganda which the unsuspecting "ducks" gulp down with relish. This then forms the way they come to understand the shape and direction of not just the liturgy, but the underlying faith de-formation that it feeds upon. Then open the file cabinets of their music libraries . . . drawerful after vile drawerful of music cast in the guise of choral octavos, mere lipstick and rouge slathered on the pig of awful congregational music they put in the pew editions, designed to give the "Contemporary Ensemble" or the "Choir" an opportunity to function in a way totally antithetical to the true purposes of a choir. Then, of course, you must purchase all of the "extras"; the b-flat and c instrument part books, the guitar accompaniments, the volume of "intro's and outro's" (no kidding here, folks. OCP actually published a volume of older versions of things with extended introductions and codas, and gave it this clever little moniker). All of this is loose-leaf, which means as they change the offerings in the throw-away editions, they send you updates to the binders. What the average Episcopalian, Lutheran or other Protestant organist is used to: a one or two-volume edition of the hymnal in larger print and with some special accompaniments) becomes a book rack crammed full of cheaply-made books that are either too flimsy to stand up (usually with wire binding) or too heavy to heave up onto the music rack without wrenching a rotator cuff (or as in my case accidentally catching a key on the lowest keyboard of the organ and breaking it clean off . . . grrr!).

    And, after a few mind-numbing years of use of this program, the Stockholm Syndrome definitely kicks in. I myself was an OCP loyalist and it took years of careful study before I snapped out of it and realized that I was perpetuating a fraud. In my current situation we use the GIA version of this Saul Alinsky scheme, but since I know how the game is played, I know how to give the appearance that I'm "on board" without really being "on board."

    I'm a free-market Capitalist, to be sure. This, however is wickedness beyond compare.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    If we don't have any foil-hat 9/11 truthers here, let's play a game: let's pretend that GIA and OCP aren't managed by Beelzebub himself, and that they don't sit in board meetings asking "how can we destroy the Church today?" I'm not arguing that GIA and OCP provide for a clear understanding of the Church's liturgical demands or that they disseminate beautiful, worthy music. They and NPM DO perpetuate the prevalent anti-liturgical attitudes in church music today. All I'm arguing is that they got where they are today because people liked what they had. In fact, it's a perfect parallel for the rock industry: the angry anti-establishment types became the establishment. And I really think they think they're doing a service to the Church. Just like I think many of our politicians in America think they are doing what's best for the country. The reality is that they aren't, however.

    What's devious is the priests and bishops who never gave a "darn" about the liturgy. It was like that before the council, and it carried over to form our establishment today. GIA thinks it's publishing what the Church needs. NARL thought publishing "Glory & Praise" was what the Church needed. Mr. Caruso with his guitar thought that replacing the Agnus Dei with "Peace is Flowing Like a River" is what the Church needed. These people all did EXACTLY what we are doing today: serving the Church how we believe is necessary. And you know what? The Church NEVER SAID A THING TO DISCOURAGE IT! The bishop didn't care about the priest celebrating Mass in jeans and a stole at a coffee table. The priest didn't care to stop Mr. Caruso. He didn't even say a word when he threw out the Graduals to make room for Glory & Praise! These "shepherds" are solely to blame for our problems. They let it happen, because the liturgy was secondary to careerism, popularity, social gospel, or whatever. And it still goes on! David, you know how a prominent cathedral musician with whom we are both acquainted was replaced with "a pastoral musician rather than a professional musician." The bishops are the reason I go to protestant or Orthodox churches on Sundays.

    Apostolic Succession? That's supposed to impress me when a "successor to the apostles" says "you can't talk to young people about salvation"? GIA was the little boy mixing ammonia with bleach. The bishops were the parents who labeled the bottles "sugar" and "pop".
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Gavin, you are correct. The problem has always been either inept or indifferent leadership, and often both!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I'm not sure that two wrongs make a right, that we should praise certain companies for doing what bad priests let them get away with.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    David Andrew,

    I'm always curious about whether folks become OCP loyalists in part (or in full) because of their conventions.
  • An honest question: how would people even know that this trashy music exists if it weren't deliberately marketed? Would not people be more attracted to good music if the publishers truly wanted to sell it? It seems to me that this is a 'demand' which has been created - rather like cigarettes. And: Oxford, Boosey & Hawkes, Novello, et al. seem to prosper quite well without publishing rubish! One could only conclude, in light of this, that this is a created market the purpose of which is to cheapen our culture - which is either irrational or fiendish.
  • Kathy,

    I inherited the program that was using OCP. I became more and more entrenched in the OCP/GIA/NPM mindset by going to the conventions, buying up all of the resources from Liturgy Training Publications (another publisher that's got LOTS to answer for), reading the likes of Gabe Huck and Aidan Kavanaugh.

    Last summer I finally went through a total house-cleaning of all of my books, because the printed out articles and copies of the official Roman documents and Fortescue and the writings of the Holy Father were beginning to crowd out the shelves and spill onto the floor. Some of it I felt was so contrary to my developed understanding that I couldn't even bring myself to "donate" them to someone. Into the big blue bins with the three-arrowed triangle they went, with no guilt whatsoever.

    @ M. Jackson Osborn: that's just the point. Up until I went to the NPM National in Indianapolis in 2007 (which, I might add I did not so much because of the offerings but because there were friends and colleagues I knew I'd run into, and it was a well-timed and much needed time away), I can't recall ever hearing anything remotely approaching completely unaltered, arranged or jiggered-beyond-recognition renderings of Gregorian Chant. Everywhere in all places it was the usual standards from the usual suspects. At the 2007 convention, the monks of St. Meinrad (just down the road from Indy) came up along with Fr. Columba Kelly, O.S.B., a noted scholar in the work of Dom Cardine and the semiologists, to present a "concert" of chant in its various forms. This by the way was just days after the release of the motu proprio. The wailing and gnashing of teeth, the hand-wringing was great sport to watch, I can tell you!

    I don't consider myself a swivel-eyed conspiracy theorist in any way, shape or form. But given my age and experience I don't think it takes much in-depth study and reading to discover just how insidious the changes and de-formation the aggiornamento has truly undergone.

    I doubt anyone would call Cardinal Ottaviani an aluminum foil helmet-wearing conspiracy theorist either, but just read his letters contained in "The Ottaviani Intervention" to get a real picture of how all of this got started, and just how quickly objections were dismissed and the controls over things like music and liturgical texts were put into place.

    By the way, I realize that this whole conversation is a bit of an "old saw," and for some it's a chicken-and-egg blame game. On the other hand, someone very wise once said, "Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it." Just as was pointed out in another thread here about the term "schola," we need to recognize the mistakes that were made the first go-round, and do what we can to not repeat them.
  • Several prominent Catholic musical and liturgical organizations receive substantial funding from the principal publishers of music marketed to musicians and priests in Catholic parishes. This connection resembles morally the acceptance by secular lawmakers and regulators (as individuals) of cash and equivalent-of-cash payments from individuals and organizations promoting specific agendas. These relationships are usually not considered conspiracies per se; however, in the case of such music publishers, the monopolies created and protected by copyright laws tranfer their coercive force directly to Catholics in the pew. When the administration of copyright and the creation of monopolies is leveraged by the combined spending power of thousands of Catholic parishes, we end up with a true perversion of the Church's self understanding.
  • Where's the list of the people taking these payof....I mean, fundings?

    Should we publicize this...or ask for matching funds from them for Musica Sacra?

    I can see it now: BOWTIEGATE

    >•
  • OCP also helps its cause by providing grants to parishes so that they, too, can have a share in their mindless dribble. In my younger years, I was going to apply for this grant until I realized that it would be like giving my beloved dachshund antifreeze to drink. Unfortunately, my current pastor is so entrenched with this stuff that I am afraid we are stuck with OCP for a good while.

    I did find a very old copy of the Worship II hymnal. I wish I could win the Mega Million lottery and find a way to re-print it.